Ep 1: First Date

Queer Relationships, Queer Joy; two relationship therapists exploring what's working in LGBTQ+ relationships.

In this episode, we talk about:

- What to expect from Queer Joy

- Keely and Melissa's background as therapists and as queer people

- Dating apps and starting to date after a major breakup or divorce

- Managing polyamorous relationships

- Resistance through orgasms

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TRANSCRIPT

Keely: Hello. Welcome everyone.

We are part of Connective Therapy Collective, and we are doing a queer relationships podcast. Starting off now, our pilot. So I'm going to start off introducing myself. We're both gonna just introduce ourselves and kind of spend some time talking about why we're doing this podcast.

Why is it even important?

.And we hope that people listen and want to share and tell us more about what they want to hear about. Cause we definitely have plenty to talk about. Part of this has seeing what's going on in the world and specifically in queer relationships.

I really have been thinking about this for years. Melissa and I work in relationships, all types of relationships. We should clarify that. Like we're not talking. Yes. We're saying queer relationships, but we're also meaning like folks in all sorts of monogamy, non-monogamy polyamory, kink, BDSM, um, asexual, all the different things.

We're not talking about just, what we call standard, I guess, monogamy. So we have been both of us work with couples and different relationship formations. And it's like the combination of like being a therapist and only hearing yeah. Like really, we hear negative about relationships all the time. Like, can I, can I say that, Melissa?

Melisa: Yeah.

And I think when we were talking about this podcast, you had mentioned that, you know, in therapy, we, we pathologize, you know, we're responsible for diagnosing and treatment plans and it can be very overwhelming. The amount of what's not working, um, that we are encountering hour after hour, every day.

Keely: So we were like, Hey, or I, you know, I was like, I want to hear about what's going well, like what's working. And that's one of the things I do ask in, in therapy when someone says, yeah, this week has been a good week. I'm like, oh yeah, what went well? And then people are like, oh, how do I talk about that?

And so the idea is that you and I get to talk, but we also get to bring people in and talk about like, what is going well, what is working in your relationship?

Melisa: I think it's so important for people to have models to, especially when we're talking about queer relationships, um, not just models that aren't working, you know, like you said, what is going well?

Um, and I would argue that even, you know, queer dynamics, things like that we might get into later on in the podcast. I think those are relevant for everyone, whether or not you consider yourself being in a quote unquote queer relationship.

Keely: Yeah. I mean, straight people can definitely learn a lot from queer people and, you know, we all have our different views.

You know, some people will say that everyone's a little queer.

, so

Melisa: I'm bisexual. I feel like I definitely make that judgment.

Keely: So I'm Kelly Helmick. I am a queer gender. Non-conforming white person. Non-binary femme, just kind of doing a gender exploration. So there's lots of things you could say about gender. We won't spend this whole time about gender, because it's not the podcast for that, but I am a co-owner of Connective Therapy Collective. Therapist, supervisor.

And really like a big theater nerd and love radio love podcasts. And it was like, why am I not doing a podcast right now? So then Melissa, do you want to share a little bit about yourself?

Melisa: Yeah, sure. Um, so I am Melissa. I use she, her pronouns. Um, I am a bisexual polyamorous. White, cisgender female. I'm also with theater nerd and, uh, just general artist and a licensed psychotherapist, with Connective Therapy Collective.

Keely: When I say I'm a theater nerd, I also love to listen to other queer podcasts and hear what other people are saying. And I liked the idea of, just really this idea of decentralizing

the cis-het normative framework and really normalizing this like full spectrum of what relationship can be. And so that's another piece of it as I can we model, like you said, have models, but also have voices of people who have different experiences and are reshaping and changing. Like not going, you know, what's the term we always say relationship escalator, like getting off the relationship escalator and creating their own relationship.

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. And that freedom to be playful and creative. I mean, that's a word that I think has been coming up more and more in therapy sessions that I've been holding, especially in this pandemic, you know, container that we're in. Um, when spontaneity and creativity, you know, I've really taken a back seat, to just survival day to day.

And having that creativity, having that, uh, room for fluidity and movement and change, you know, in relationships is to me, part of what makes relationships keep growing and building, uh, and not get stagnant and stuck.

Keely: Yeah. So I, what do you think, you know, oh, you know, I think we should also introduce maybe our relationship dynamics. Feel comfortable talking about like your.

Melisa: Context is helpful for sure. I think already, if, if not already then soon my sarcastic, humorous tone about my own self will surely come through. So yeah, happy to share. Um, and that, that's part of my why in terms of what brought me to Connective Therapy Collective. You know, as a clinician, I really wanted to align the clinical work that I'm doing with what I'm also grappling with personally, you know, and, and how learning to grow myself. So a little bit of context; I'm recently divorced from a partner of 10 years. Really significant relationship in my life. Um, also publicly out of the closet about a year ago. Those two things are somewhat unrelated, but happened at the exact same time. Um, And I guess in addition to that I've been practicing ethical non-monogamy for about four years. I identify as a polyamorous person and I think with that, part, part of my agenda and hearing what's working is I'd like to convince myself that I want to be back in relationships with people.

So please help me with that along the way, everybody. Um, but one of the themes that I have been grappling with personally is the balance between autonomy and being in connection with other people.

And how do I be in connection with other people without losing myself? Um, so that's, that's one of the big themes that's kind of, uh, underscoring my life right now. And something I'm interested in exploring more in this context.

Keely: Yeah. So, yeah, my, you know, even still, like one of the things we talked about in counseling all the time is being vulnerable as a therapist. So I also got trained about 15 years ago and the way that we were trained 15 years ago is different than currently. Yeah, so we, we were very conscientious about self-disclosure. So I still get a little nervous about my self disclosure, but yeah. So my relationship status, so I have been out as, so I did the thing I started off. Yeah. No, I was, I've been super queer since I was a kid I'm and, um, I did like the hidden relationship or whatever in high school and really got shamed, hardcore.

Um, but I, I came out to my family when I was 19. Um, but I came out as bisexual and then I was in a very cis-hetero appearing relationship and traditional, because we were very cis-het appearing. However, both of us identify both of us are queer. Um, and we started that's when I started exploring ethical non-monogamy was in a marriage. And actually first, my first week of dating was like, we met up and I'd like made out with like some random woman and I'm telling him all about it. And he's like, oh, that's great. We really started off as like non-monogamous from the get-go. Um, but none of our family knew. We didn't tell. I mean, people had these like ideas or thoughts of us, but no one knew, um, had two kids, and then was like, huh, like this whole like dude thing.

Cis-dude thing just is not working for me. And I was like, I really am not wanting to be in this anymore. And it hadn't been for a long time. Hadn't wanted to be so unhappy, but didn't understand all the things. Now I look back and it's kind of, it's a form of compulsory heterosexuality. I was like even being out at the age of 19, I was in this compulsory heterosexuality appearing dynamic. Well, so then I was like, oh no, I'm super gay. And got out of the marriage. And then just went on a journey, still on a journey, um, sexuality and gender wise, and have been in and out of monogamy, non-monogamy. Currently in a monogamous relationship and frankly, in a monogamous relationship, can't even imagine. Having a 13 year old and a nine-year-old and trying to be with more than one person.

I hear that I can only imagine.

So, yeah. Yeah. That's where I'm at status wise. I might be a little more quote, unquote, boring right now.

I don't know, just monogamous, um, and not dating. So I'm like in a partnership. And I do identify as kinky as well. I don't know, somewhere in that realm of kinky, not vanilla. I don't know whatever you want to talk. Say about that. So

Melisa: Thank you also for like naming where you're at currently.

Um, I don't know if I can promise to be any more interesting, but I am. Actively dating. I think, um, I'm doing that thing where you go back and forth between creating your profile and deleting it. So that's where I'm at right now. I do have, uh, two current partners, but, um, yeah, I appreciate kind of the. Keep bringing ourselves in, like you said, in a vulnerable way, but also I imagine that the themes that we'll share throughout this podcast will align with some of what we're going through personally as well.

So happy to keep everyone posted.

Keely: I think the dating thing, I mean, I think it's great that we have a different perspective than I am always curious to hear about what's going on with dating, because I'll also be super vulnerable. I I'll be like single for a minute and then go on the dating app. And I

I've had such different experiences on dating apps and other people, or like meeting people. And so, um, maybe I just am not picky enough. I don't know. I just go on it and then I meet people and then I'm. Hanging and don't need the app anymore. So like, not trying to say that I'm like, oh, I'm like so attractive or whatever.

Um, like I said, I might just not be picky enough,

Melisa: but I, I think I'm, I'm very picky. And so what will happen for me is I've spent an hour on this app swiping left, and like, I just like, what's the, why am I here?

Keely: Yeah, like, what's the point? What are you doing? What's the point of this?

Melisa: I'm the kind of person who, for me relationships are really built in person.

So it's so difficult that format, you know, specifically, um, and it's sort of what feels accessible right now in these times.

Keely: Yeah, for sure. Well, yes, we always get people. So I think, I think included, or, you know, we've talked about included in this like up there's the cat. I mean, really, it would not be a queer podcast without animals around like, like

Melisa: that lady over here.

Actually, I will tell you that the cats did come out of relationship woes. Um, I went through my divorce, in the fall of 2020, moved to Portland on my own, um, was dating someone locally. And then that relationship ended because he and his primary closed off their relationship. Um, two a relationship traumas back to back.

Um, and I remember getting again, back on the apps and I asked my friend, like, is it too soon? Like, right. Is if there's a too soon. but I asked that question, my friend said, Melissa, get some cats. So I adopted two lovely kittens. Um, and I also scheduled the date. So it, you know, it wasn't too soon for me, but I did try and take some advice as well.

Keely: Well, and then there's, and there's a lot of stereotypes and we'll be really careful. I'll try and be conscientious and it's really easy. And so like, please listeners, like, right. And if you hear something that we're like saying that's like, Ooh, like out of date or it sounds kind of pushing the envelope. You know, do no harm, but there are some like, really intense stereotypes of dating.

And like, I think. I don't know, I find it hard to talk about giving ourselves time to heal and time to ourself, but also it can come across as really polyamory, shaming, right. Because we have these things of oh, you're a serial monogamous. And like, th like, as if there's something wrong with that as if there's something, if you want to be in relationship with people in whatever ways you want to be a relationship, that's okay.

I don't think it's about, we put this judgment of like, you should wait to go on a dating app. So, so and so time, but that's really about monogamy minds.

Melisa: It is, you know, and it, I found it at least for myself to be in conflict with my ideas of trauma, because you know, for me, healing trauma happens through experience.

It's not just talking about it from an emotionally detached place. So while I would say that there's plenty of healing, I am doing solo on my own, and that's sort of just my nature. I'm an introvert. I really like alone time. Um, moving in with myself has been such a gift. And in terms of my healing process, you know, some of those wounds happen through relationships.

And so for me, Part of the recipe of putting myself back together is to heal through relationships. There's only so much I can do by myself with my therapist, uh, you know, talking about it. I got to get out there and experience it in order to. You know, shift some of these assumptions and narratives I'm holding.

Yeah.

Keely: Yeah. And I think it's just about what works for each person. And so that's, I mean, obviously that's why we're both therapists, like one of the great things about therapy is, is figuring out what works for us as individuals. And so it works better for some people to be single for a while. And yeah, I hear, I mean, I hear so much, you'll be like, well, I'm purposely not dating. And there'll be like for 30 days, I'm like, And they're like, well, or Kelly, do you think you should be doing this?

Or I should be doing, you know, they asked me and I'm like, you, it's your life. You get to choose. But I, I do. I do like hearing, I mean, is it fun to hear these stories of. People that are doing their own thing. Sure. But like not putting a prescription on like what each, you know, each person has their own experiences.

And I don't think that there's a timeline that's right. For everybody.

Melisa: Right. There's not a supposed to be, you know, and that's, I think that's also going back to what you said about like the relationship escalator and getting rid of that idea. Like that's our intention with queer relationships. Like there isn't one model.

There is no, this is right. This is what it should be. Let's just explore what we each individually need and what we want.

Keely: Yeah, totally. I'm just thinking of like the sex educator that I was just listening to, um, her name is Eva and she was like, she has a class and it's called, uh, fuck the patriarchy.

Fuck yourself. Love that. You don't talk about this a lot and this will probably be, I'm sure it continued theme, but like how. Um, sex and queer relationships and queer joy is, um, part of the revolution is part of dissent as part of like the. Like going against and creating change.

Melisa: Yeah. Resistance through orgasms

Keely: resistance through org.

Is that our theme is that our theme, our mantra resist through orgasms. I will say one of the things I've said for ever, I don't remember what I started saying this I'm like if every person ate more, had got more sleep and had more orgasms, how. Much better and the eating more after the pandemic. I don't know.

I don't tend to eat more food a lot, but like getting more sleep and like more orgasms, like imagine how much more chill everyone should be. Right.

Melisa: Basic coping skills.

Keely: The resistance through orgasms. Yep. Big fuck you to the patriarchy

so is there anything else we want, like people to know? I mean, this is our first, like we're going to be doing this for a little bit. We're going to be doing some episodes where you and I are just chatting. We'll have like a theme, um, a theme for the episode when it's you and I, so yeah. Kind of hopefully educational for people.

Keely: Interesting. And then, we want to do some interviews too splashed in with that. What else should people know?

Melisa: Well, I mean, like you said, I think this is our kind of kickoff and our starting point. I certainly, I guess, from a therapist seat, I don't put myself in the expert position and I certainly am not going to do that here.

You know? So as you said earlier, Keely, please, I would love to invite people to connect with us and challenge us, give us new things to think about and talk about that's why I'm a therapist. It's to keep expanding myself and helping others do the same. So, you know, there's, there's plenty of problematic thinking in my own brain that I am continuing to rewire.

And, uh, I'm really excited to have this be a collaboration between us and the community. Um,

Keely: Yeah, I love it. So I know one of the things we did talk about, we want to end each episode talking about our queer joy, speaking of resistance. So yes, resistance through orgasms. And what queer joy either. What, what have you experienced this past week?

What queer joy have you experienced Melissa?

Melisa: So my big well, I've told you this before, and I'm going to claim it as my queer joy. I am bingeing all of RuPaul's drag race, all seasons. Uh, and when I binge I don't stop till I'm done. People are recommending shows and I'm like, yeah, you're going to have to wait.

But, uh, you know, I've really been integrating this into my own life, as well as, you know, the quote that RuPaul ends with every episode. If you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else?

Keely: Yay. I love it. Well, Here's where some people might have something to say about this that's okay.

My queer joy of the past week is so sometimes I identify as a lesbian that's okay. And I did the total lesbian thing this past weekend and totally geeked out and got new camping gear. And have my nice new backpack and went camping with my partner and it was great. It was so amazing. And I was very proud of myself because she actually got injured, which sucks.

She, so her foot was hurt. And normally, I'm such an extroverted person. I've read, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to do things by myself. Blah, blah, blah. Like, I want her to go with me, but she stayed back at camp and I went and explored for two hours by myself on a hike. So that was my queer joy. So that was like a combo of like two different, like growth, queer joy, and just like total queer joy of like being outside camping.

Melisa: It's so beautiful. And you know, I won't judge my own queer joy, but like, I'm glad you were outdoors instead of stuck behind a streaming device.

Keely: Wait, did we just pop in? Did I just do a really good segue to our next episode? The autonomy, how we do autonomy with like connection. I think, I think we did. Yeah, we're doing it already.

I'm doing it. Yay. All right. Well, I think that's about, that's about it for this, uh, this first episode. Thank you all for joining us. You can find us at Connective Therapy Collective on Instagram, on Twitter. Uh, our website is www dot Connective Therapy, Collective.com. If you're interested in learning more about our services and about our collective.

And am I missing anything, Melissa?

Melisa: No, but I, I think, you know, again, since we're here at the beginning, please do connect with us, let us know what you want to hear about. Let us know what themes you'd like to talk about what's going on in your relationships. And certainly if you've got more queer joy to share, we'd love to hear it.

Keely: All right. Thanks everyone. Have a great week.

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