ep 73: When People Talk: How To Deal With Gossip

What do you do when someone thinks you’re something you’re not? How can we cope with being unable to control other’s view of us? Could that be impacting your relationships? Hear it all on this episode of the Queer Joy Podcast; where two relationship therapists explore what it looks like to see joy in queer relationships.

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TRANSCRIPT

ep 73

Keely: when we are trying to control how other people perceive us.

And spoiler alert, we cannot control the narrative of ourselves that other people tell.

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Queer Relationships Queer Joy.

Melisa: So glad to have everyone back.

Keely: I'm one of your co-hosts, Keely C. Helmick.

Melisa: I'm your other host, Melisa deSegiurant.

Keely: So we, as we were talking right before, so Melisa and I chat and kind of talk before we go on on air. And

Melisa: We're already in our feelings about this one already.

Keely: Yes, we're already cringey, but in a way that we definitely wanna talk about this topic and we feel cringey. So if you feel cringey too, growth is uncomfortable. Ugh. I know that's so cliche, but we wanna let you know that we're here and we're having the feels too.

Melisa: Yep. We're with you. Pause. Let's take a breath when you need to.

Keely: So, introductions. I am Keely C. Helmick. I am a licensed professional counselor. I'm the owner of Connective Therapy Collective, and a certified sex therapist. I'm white queer, non-binary. They them pronouns. Solo. Solo. Solo and really excited. My physical body is shifting and changing still, and I wanna get out on my bike.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: Next step is get my body, my booty on my bike seat, and get out there and do some outdoor biking, which I have not done in almost a year.

Melisa: Wow. Wow.

Keely: That's where I am today. Love it.

Melisa: Well, I'm Melisa DeSegiurant. I'm licensed as a marriage and family therapist and a professional counselor. I'm white. I'm bisexual. I am polyamorous and polysaturated. I am able-bodied. I am gender fluid. I use she and they and they pronouns.

Keely: Yay. So updates. Updates.

Melisa: Like what's the update?

Keely: Sometimes it's like, what do I want to share? Sometimes,

Melisa: Sure.

Keely: Do I have updates? What do I have to update? I mean, I was saying I did go on a, so I went on a first date, which is the first date that I have done since getting back on the apps. It's been my first, first date. Redundant. Said in like three or four months.

Melisa: Yeah. And this is a date, a product of like the new profile on the apps you were talking about creating?

Keely: Yep. New profile and going about in some interesting, like trying some new things out. Seeing how I wanna present myself, which we'll be talking about how people perceive us.

Melisa: Cringe.

Keely: How we, yeah. Well, and it comes up in dating profiles. I think I've already said this, but it's such a queer thing of how our hair affects how we're perceived.

Melisa: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Keely: And what, how I see myself and how people are perceiving me on the dating app is definitely very interesting. And I'm having some interesting conversations.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: I'm wondering if I want to shift and clarify more on my profile, but also I don't wanna be pigeonholed into certain categories. But I think that because of my haircut, seriously, because of my haircut, I think people perceive me as more butchy than I am. And there's a lot of talk yesterday about like masc energy and I mean, and these are all things that can be debated of how we define it.

Melisa: Right.

Keely: But it is very interesting and the person at one point said, well, you do have a very queer haircut right now. And so I'm like, oh. Yeah, based on how I look, what are you expecting from me or

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: Do you think I am based on this profile pictures, but

Melisa: Is always a question.

Keely: Yeah. I mean, I made a very clear point and I'm like, maybe I should mix up my pictures more again. But I made a very clear point. All of my pictures are less than a year old. I like the idea of having very updated recent photos now I have certain ways that people see me. other than that, I was hinting at my physical body feeling a lot different than it did even four months ago. and lots of transitions. Springtime, it feels very, we've already said it. I still have this vision, this feeling of like spring cleaning and looking through what relationships are going well in my life? What relationships do I wanna attend more to? What relationships am I gonna put a little less energy in? Like where do I wanna put my rejuvenating new spring energy and building up to thinking about like summer and fall time, which we're like, do I wanna put my energy?

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: What connections?

Melisa: Similar actually to my, we've been on a similar wavelength. I think a lot of that is just seasonal, I'm realizing, but

Keely: Yes, yes.

Melisa: Definitely. I've continued the trend of like balancing some socialization with some me time. Um, it's funny, as we're sitting here talking about spring, even summer approaching, I actually find myself feeling nervous.

Which is interesting. I'm like not ready to leave the cozy cold hibernation of winter, early spring. I like, I'm not ready. sorry everyone, I'm not there yet and that's okay. we're also not there yet. It won't technically feel like summer, probably till July here, so I got time.

Keely: Yeah.

Melisa: I think that's just, there's been so much building for me and I'll share some of this in my queer joy later, but, I feel a wave of energy coming that I'm kind of doing the like, oh man, really am I? I don't know, maybe I need to go back to sleep for another year and then we'll try again next time. but that said, I mean, even though that's present for me in this moment, as I talk about it, I'm feeling really resourced, in a lot of like different ways in my life, like both professionally, but personally and like resourced meaning.

Like, I'm eating regularly and I'm sleeping. Like those things are great, but also like really socially nourished too, in a lot of cool ways. yeah, so I, you know, I'm doing the things I'm, I was, I had a FaceTime with two of my really good friends from college yesterday, and we were talking about like, responsibilities, and I was like, gosh, it's just, it's like, right now I'm in the place where I can like go to bed at a reasonable hour and like cook for myself and like shower and brush my teeth regularly.

Like, you know, all those things. I'm like, it's really hard to do all that consistently for some of us. Like that's, that takes a lot. I can't imagine adding a bunch of other stuff into the mix.

Keely: Yeah, it's real. It's real. How we prioritize our time and energy. I think the thing I noticed. I just have noticed a big shift in my forties and my brain still wants to do all the things all the time.

Cuz I'm very extroverted. My body's like, Hey, let's relax, let's chill.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: All those stretches that they always talk about, let's do those stretches.

Melisa: Oh man. they are necessary. My God. Like, yeah, yeah.

Keely: And warm water. It's like, oh, it's chilly. It's gold outside. My body wants warm.

Melisa: ​

Keely: So yeah, we hinted at the topic and delving into this idea of how do we notice and allow, like, I'm not saying this very articulately, basically, when we are trying to control how other people perceive us.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: When we are trying to control the narrative and spoiler alert, we cannot control the narrative of ourselves that other people tell.

Melisa: Insert the cringe here. We do not have control. I will tell you, as someone who is attempted to control that for a long time, it doesn't work.

Keely: Oh. And so we wanna touch on what are some examples of this, how it can be really challenging. It can bring up a lot of big emotions.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: And then before we wrap up, we want to talk about what are ways, how do we move through this?

Melisa: Yeah. And how do you potentially cope with not being able to control that? How do you even cope with knowing that somebody has formed this narrative or picture of you that doesn't feel congruent with your own picture of yourself? Right.

Keely: And I think this really ties in, I don't know how deep we'll get into this on this episode, but this also really affects how we talk about agreements in non-monogamy.

It can also be agreements in monogamy, of course, but how much can we actually, what is reasonable or what works, what has become a power and control play of what we ask partners to share or not share with other partners? How do we, because at the end of the day, we can't control it. One example, so you started talking about Melisa.

So some examples of how this comes out when we notice narratives classic one is when there is a breakup.

Melisa: Right. Yep. Yeah, that's one of the things, I appreciated in my, in the training to become like a couple's therapist was talking about not every, you know, couple or, group of people who were in relationship who are transitioning that relationship would necessarily be in a position to be able to access this or do this. But like best case scenario, there's like a intentional decoupling and we've talked about that on the podcast before, but part of that is part of the therapist prompting in that scenario is like, what's the story you two wanna share about your relationship and about this transition?

So best case scenario, it's really cohesive and it's shared and that's often not the case, though. That's often, you know, sometimes when we have these relationship ruptures or transitions that feel more chaotic or more harmful, sometimes there's not even good communication between the people involved.

Keely: Right. Yeah. Well, I wanna point out right away that we are talking about, obviously on our podcast we're talking about mainly queer relationships and how intenseness can be because it is so often interconnected of how many people know other people.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: And so these narratives get passed along like telephone. And so when we hear some, or when something is spoken about us, and then it goes down the line and someone's like, oh, the worst phrase to hear. Oh. You are Keely. Oh, I've heard about you. And you're like, oh.

Melisa: Yeah. The subtext there is like, oh, I have all these ideas about you already. Based on all the stories I've heard from one person, you know all the one-sided narratives I have. I know who you are.

Keely: And I will say, as a queer sex therapist, I can go all around the nation. And it is really quick to be like, oh, I've seen your TikTok, or I've read your book, or I've heard about your book. I've heard about your trainings. So as a therapist, it's very small as a queer sex therapist, very small, and then dating friendship, these towns that we all live in.

Melisa: Yep.

Keely: It's just there.

Melisa: And even, no, and even Keely as you're saying this, even when we don't, somebody doesn't know us because what we're talking about is the projections somebody else like makes and puts onto us. I mean, I've experienced that shoot as a theater person when I've said, oh yeah, I used to do theater, and I've gotten, oh, you used to do theater, huh? Right. Enter all your assumptions here. I get the same thing as a bisexual, polyamorous person. Like, oh, so you like this and this and this. Right? And it's like, man, you already have all these ideas about me because of one word I chose to use to label myself.

Keely: Yeah.

Melisa: And it does, it makes me think about how, what are the ways I try and manage that and what you know of those strategies I'm using, what actually feels useful to me and what can I let go of?

Keely: Yeah. And I like how you just said that Melisa, what we're talking about, Is recognizing how we try to manage it and how that may actually be causing harm to ourselves.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: And how we're engaging in a power and control dynamic as we try to shape and change and control the narrative about us.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: Somebody else.

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. I'm already uncomfortable and we just started.

Keely: Well with the abuse. So we have some different scenarios. So we talked about how this can happen in a breakup.

Melisa: Mm-hmm.

Keely: This also can happen in an abusive situation. There are a lot of shifting and changing work around how we talk about abuse and how we talk about specifically within the queer community and when you know the difference between a queer relationship and how abuse may look. Similar, but also different than this hetero dynamic and how, different statuses, privileges, demographics, can look different.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: This really does play out though when there is a picture painted and someone comes through and starts posting on Facebook or starts going through their friends and telling, saying, using that word abuse. And then now someone is labeled as an abuser.

Melisa: Right.

Keely: And using it as an adjective, as a noun. Like this person is an abuser.

Melisa: Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. And it, it's, it's, so, it's difficult too, because in my therapy perspective, like abuse comes from trauma, you know, and so it's just, it's. It. I've had a lot of conversations with clients recently who are in abusive situations where they are the people who are sustaining abuse. And, uh, not sustaining that makes it sound like they're perpetuating, but I guess in some ways we're all, if we're all in the cycle, we're all part of it somehow, but more that they're receiving harm in their relationship and part of the difficulty in setting some boundaries is that the person or people, inflicting harm clearly also ha, are dealing with their own past abuse and so are projecting a lot in their relationship.

And so it's tough for some of my clients here to release the need to try and change. Their triggered partner's view of them, where it's like, this person's abusing me, but I can see that it's because of all the people who abuse them. And I just, if they could only see that I'm really trying to help them and I'm not abandoning them, and it ends up, I guess, really perpetuating that abuse because instead of setting the boundaries, we need to be healthy.

We, our agenda is about then changing this person's narrative.

Keely: Well, as you say that Melisa. That control piece, as you said, the person who can recognize what they're doing and their partner or how they're in it, but they can only control their boundaries. They can only control how they react to certain things and the power dynamic. And I always think of, I have this image of like a tug of war, you know? When it becomes, that's not what I'm actually saying. It becomes this debate of words.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: And trying arguments escalate as people try to change the opinion of somebody.

Melisa: And it's like, as you say that the energy that I have embodied when I've been in that position is like, it's a defensive energy.

Keely: Yeah.

Melisa: It's like a no no, no. Like, that's not, that's not the view of me. I want you to have, you can't have that, you know? and that's not helpful in that scenario.

Keely: And this, so we're talking about how we're trying, how a person. It can cause harm for themselves in trying to control the narrative that someone else has about them. And it also reminds me of just trying to control how someone behaves or how somebody acts. And this piece around boundaries. And the only way the other way that we have control, and this is a part that's really hard, really, really hard. That is when we decide whether to fully disengage with somebody if they, if we find, if you find that you're perpetually being harmed and how the two of you perceive the world and how you perceive what is going on in your relationship dynamic, that it doesn't match.

And this is where, and you know, don't get me wrong, obviously this is where therapy can be so helpful because. You may notice after listening to this episode and engaging it, wow. This happens to me and one of my partners, or some of my partners, where when we tell the story and talk about something that has happened or when I hear my partner reflecting about me as a person and doesn't match what I know of myself and what they're saying about me.

Having couples counseling, having a third person can be really helpful and the two of you can come together and find ways to match more of your narrative. This is a really good opportunity to be like, well, maybe this isn't a person. This isn't helping to stay friends.

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.

Keely: Because we're gonna keep saying it today and We cannot control what another person says about us.

Melisa: Right.

Keely: We cannot control what another person thinks of us. That is not our story to tell.

Melisa: Totally.

Cardinal: Hey, hey, it's cardinal. You're behind the scenes buddy. Sometimes people see us in negative ways, no way around it, and people also see us in unexpectedly positive ways. No way around that either. you ever been surprised by the supportive way someone's viewed you? Maybe a compliment from a stranger or a quality or partner fell in love with that you didn't value very much.

Strike your stuff and share your queer joy by leaving us a voicemail at 5 0 3 6 6 0 4 4 0 9. That's 5 0 3 6 6 0 4 4 0 9. Youcanalso find the number in the episode description. All right, back to the show.

Melisa: Here's a potentially helpful and uncomfortable prompt for people. I'm laughing because as we're having this conversation, this was something in a, I was in like a spiritual, a support group for a while. A couple years ago. And one of the, you know, we were doing shadow work, so that union concept, and we've named that here before, which has different names depending on which theory you wanna, you know, look at it from. But part of what was being asked of us is, kind of welcoming some of those narratives because part of like, part of it is looking at why am I so uncomfortable with this narrative about me?

Keely: Yeah.

Melisa: Where is the shame there? Right? And like for example, as someone who has really, gosh, what's my pole focus? Been on self work, relationship with self, like self-care, solo dates, right? Like, yeah, like this kind of screams. and like for some people they'll have that perspective of like, wow, like you have such a healthy relationship with yourself and other people will go, wow, you are so selfish. You are so self-centered. Right.

Keely: Totally. Yeah.

Melisa: And so part of my shadow work was not saying, no, I'm not selfish. Look at all this. The ways I help people. Look, I'm a therapist, I look at how many, right. That's my impulse. Like look at everything I give to everyone else. Right? No. The shadow work in that moment for me was going, okay, yeah, you know what?

I am self-centered. Sometimes I really am. Let's feel into that part. What part of me is self-centered? What does that mean? What's the part? I'm going into parts work now, but what's the part of me judging that other part?

Keely: Yeah.

Melisa: Right. So it's bringing that, putting myself centeredness, or whatever you wanna call that. And again, this is where language can become problematic because self-centered has a negative connotation. But like when we're talking about being in a healthy relationship, there's a part of my brain that goes very literal and like, don't we have to center our, if we're not centering ourselves, aren't we like centering somebody else's emotions that doesn't work, right?

But it's bringing that negative thing into the light and saying, okay, what if I could own part of this? Does this have to be a terrible thing? Right.

Keely: That, yes, I think about the memes that say I don't like in a relationship. I don't want to be your priority.

Melisa: Yeah.

I want,I don't want to be your number one. I want you to be your number one. Like, Yeah.

Keely: How do we manage both end both end.

Melisa: Yeah. Sometimes though I will name, there's a narrative that actually doesn't match, right? Like for example, oh, the abuse thing. If somebody is being painted as an abuser in the community, and perhaps they can even own for themselves, maybe part of that was based in reality, in a real situation, they can name, you know what I was really abusive in that relationship dynamic, but I also know that that's not me anymore.

You know, and so that's different work than of how do I allow myself to release this narrative about me, even though again, I can't control that, other people may still hold it. How do I give myself grace and myself room to grow as a person, even if other people will not afford me the same thing. That's really hard.

That's really hard.

Keely: So we're looking at how we talk about ourselves. how do we speak to ourselves? Also that integrity piece of how are we speaking about other people?

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: If we're sitting here worried or having cringey moments, thinking about how other people are perceiving us or how, what other people's narratives about us are, how we showed up in a relationship, how are we talking about the people in our relationship? How are we think talking about people in our lives?

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. And how flexible are, are our narratives about other people? I mean, to be honest, that is something that I pay attention to when I'm dating. How are people talking about their exes? Yes.

Keely: Oh my gosh. That is such a thing. I think it is. So maybe this is the non-monogamous poly person in me, but when someone's talking about their ex in a kind way and talking about the things that were really positive about their past relationships, that's so much.

I have so much more hope for that connection with them than if they are badmouthing, they're exes.

Melisa: So true. I'm having a true podcast moment where a cat is like, really? She wants to be part of this conversation. Oh yeah.

Keely: She tell us. Tell us about how Melisa,

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: How is Melisa as a cat owner?

Melisa: It's the narrative. She would think I'm selfish, truly, and to be honest, I mean, you know, I, I think about this and how I talk about my ex, which I, that's not what I'm gonna go into here cuz it's not the appropriate venue to talk about that. But, uh, when I'm talking to new people, I'm dating and sometimes, you know, it's not about sugarcoating things either.

I've certainly have dated people or even met people, like friends-wise who have had really rough abusive situations. Right. And I wouldn't expect them to be like, Oh, no big deal. They were great though, right? Like to me that would also be a red flag of like,

Keely: I'm not saying yes, for sure. We're not saying that.

Melisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there is something different about, I don't know, it's almost like somebody's, maybe what I'm actually. Picking up in those moments is not so much the language that they use, but how regulated they seem in their own bodies as they're talking about the person that, maybe that's what I'm sensing, because I think there's a way that some people can say, oh wow, that relationship was really hard, and you know what? Like I learned a lot and here and focuses back on them. Rather than focusing on bad, mouthing somebody else, which usually comes from a dysregulated place where they're not breathing, they're hyperventilating, they're back in the narrative. That's like, oh, okay. Nope. we're not gonna play into that energy.

Keely: Well, and as you're saying this Melisa, I was just thinking this is, I mean, I know we talk about it all the time as therapists. This is where journaling has such an impact because we have control of our narrative about ourselves.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: And so when we're writing on a daily or weekly basis, We are creating our own narrative.

Melisa: Yeah, totally.

Keely: And that is what we do have control of.

Melisa: We're talking about a lot about the narrative we have about people, but also the narrative about relationships and like potential relationships. Cuz even back to that example I was just sharing, part of the reason I get uncomfortable with certain ways that people might talk about their last relationships is because, What I'm doing partially is figuring out, well, what is it gonna be like in this relationship and what's gonna happen when I upset you?

What's gonna happen when I make a mistake? Cuz I know I'm not perfect. Right? So how safe is it to be human and make mistakes in this connection? Right? And if I make a mistake, is that automatically gonna be, you have a terrible narrative about me that I can't control and now I have to deal with it cuz that doesn't feel like a safe person to be in relationship with to me.

Keely: No. How do you, how do people handle conflict?

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: It is really fascinating when having friends who come to me. And I, I always joke, but it feels like it's true, being on the bus, being on the max, being in public, I feel like therapists is like a black light in my, on my forehead because people just like start sharing things. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.

And I think about in relationships, how often do people talk about something that's bothering them, but are they actually talking to their partner? Right? Yeah.

Keely: And so that's where those narratives perpetuate.

Melisa: Right. It's that triangulation piece that we've talked about before.

Yes. Where if you're not working something out with the person that you're in conflict with, the chances are you're just sharing a bunch of narrative narratives with other people who don't have the full context and then are gonna project their own stuff onto it. I hear this a lot from, oh man, I hear this a lot with, people who are in a nonmonogamous dynamic but maybe don't have a big support group.

And so, and I'm not meaning to paint monogamous people in a negative light, but sometimes, advice and feedback from monogamous people who have no exposure to poly or nonmonogamous dynamics can be real unhelpful. You know, cuz they're projecting all of their stuff and like, yikes. Like if you're not coming from the same relationship, foundation and values. It's gonna be very hard to advise someone and not give them a bunch of narratives. From your own point of view?

Keely: Yeah. The monogamous narrative that, oh, if you were just monogamous, the poly dynamic. Is there reason why you're having issues in your relationship?

Melisa: Right. I mean, I've literally had situations where the monogamous friend trying to be helpful, be like, well, fuck them. They, you know, you should be enough. And all of them. I'm like, ah, we're dismantling all of this. Please don't reinforce these ideas that people are trying to let go of

Keely: Monogamous therapists who are not trained. You know, couples, therapists will say that too.

Melisa: Totally.

Keely: Sometimes intentionally, sometimes totally unintentionally.

Melisa: Yeah. And actually that's another piece of this whole, this is another dynamic that's come up going back to the idea of controlling people's idea or narratives about us, or image of us, to give it a different word, when couples do decide to be non monogamous, and if one person's really down for that and maybe the other person's kind of on the fence or not sure.

Oftentimes, especially if there's a lot of, community built around them that know them as a monogamous couple, that can be problematic. Right. And people are like, have all these ideas about the person who wants to be non monogamous and starts to make an image of them. Right. That may or may not be accurate.

Keely: Yeah. Uh, so then we were saying we wanted to wrap up this conversation. On how to deal with this. How do we deal with these?

Melisa: I wish I could, like, I like so badly in my brain wanna just simplify it and be like, it's just about like, you know, uh, self-love, affirmations chosen, family, forgetting what everyone else thinks.

But when you think about this on a global scale, and this is going to, this is, we'll touch this, but like, there is an issue right now with the narrative and image people have around queer people, specifically trans people. Right? That's an issue and I don't know that the, I mean, no, the answer is not just like, well, whatever.

Oh, well, they have their opinion. No. Like, people are dying, you know, like it's a problem. So, We have to figure out for ourselves. I think in each scenario, what makes sense cuz it's gonna be so nuanced for the sake of example. yeah, I do a lot of work in trying to let go of what people think about me, and that's part of my boundaries with social media.

That's part of why I have. Such triggers around social media and having myself out there. But that's also part of why I do this podcast and why I am out as a queer poly person. Cuz I at some point realized I would rather just say who I am and have, an avenue for some people to get to know me if they would like to, versus people making assumptions.

You know, I'm gonna just be out and know that I'm putting out there what I can. And at that point, if somebody has a negative view of me, okay, I can't. Okay. I can't do anymore.

Keely: Yeah, I mean, I always said, you know that a business or you're a person myself. As I become more entrenched in this community, in Portland, and when I, the broader community, like as a therapist, as a person active in social justice, Like, I'm gonna have people that don't like me, right?

And that say things about me and something that was really clear, you know, as we take this in a further perspective, outside of just romantic relationships, when I'm working on racial identity work, and as a white person, like I know I'm doing the work because I'm gonna piss off white people, like there's gonna my life.

Melisa: Yep.

Keely: And I, I see it, you know, when you're doing the challenging thing and so thinking about a person who is cis or a person that cis hetero, how they are showing up and are going to have different things said about them as they are looking at issues and being more active and being an ally.

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. That's an important reframe. Keely is like to look at it as. If you are owning a part of yourself and you're really putting yourself out there and fighting for your rights, or being an ally and fighting for, you know, someone else's rights, and then you receive a big flareup or really negative, right, that flareup is about the other person, and it's a sign that you're probably doing something right, sitting in your own identity that way doesn't mean you have to entertain it doesn't mean you can have boundaries around it.

We even made that comment, Kaylee, when we, I don't remember what comment it was or where, which platform it was on, but it was with the podcast and it was to one of our no monogamy early like comments or something, and somebody was all upset about non monogamy and you know, looked each other like, we made it, we did it, we win.

You know, cause it's about that person's and that's a humorous spin on it. I understand. But yeah. Humor, that's a coping skill. We have to reframe these things sometimes that like Yeah. You know, if I was just kind of middle of the road and being quiet and doing my people pleasing thing and trying not to cause any waves, people might have, I might feel, I might have like the, what's the word for it?

The, the guise of like control over people's image of me. But it's just people can't see me yet. You know?

Keely: Yeah. And so the dealing, this is where affirmations come in. This is where having our own narrative about ourselves. Yeah. And sitting with, when we go to a therapist, we have close friends that we can trust.

There is a piece of self-growth where, yeah, some self-awareness reflecting. On, is there some truth to what someone said about me?

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: How do I see myself? How can I make some changes, but also some acceptance when there is this release of not trying to control something. This is, I so often pop into like radical acceptance.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: There is a flavoring of that here as well.

Melisa: Yep.

Like, because when there are moments in meditation, there's moments when I'm journaling, there are moments talking to friends or working with a client or in supervision where there's that sweet spot of that radical acceptance I cannot change. Yeah. Yeah.

Keely: They cannot change how somebody views me. that is their story of me. Yeah. And that release, that allowing of that release can often feel so like a big opening, Wide and open and available to more things.

Melisa: Totally. The energy of this and it,I love and hate that this is the reference coming up because I, I used to be such a big Friends that was like my favorite show when I was in middle school.

Right. But looking back on it, I'm like, wow. So problematic and like really anti queering a lot of episodes. So I just wanna name that, but. There is a scene where, they're talking about this concept and it's Phoebe who's the one who is doing what we're talking about with a radical acceptance where essentially like Monica's pissed cuz everyone thinks she's high maintenance.

Rachel's pissed. Cause everyone thinks she's a pushover. And they're like, well, you, Phoebe are flaky. And she's like, yeah, I am. Yeah, that's true. Uhhuh. And it totally changes the energy of everything. It's like, well, now what? Now what do we do? Right. And that's that piece of like, oh yeah, okay. I can see how you had that view of me in that scenario.

That makes sense. You know? once we embrace that, then there's room to change. There's room to learn and grow. You know, we don't have to be in this defensive place anymore.

Keely: Yeah. So much more. So much more.

Keely: Well, queer joy.

Melisa: Queer joy. We need some joy. This was, I know, kind of a cringy one at least for me.

Maybe. Maybe.

Keely: I still feel cringey. I, because I know what your queer joy is going to be. Uhhuh, I want, let's have you go second.

Melisa: That's okay.

Keely: Yeah. cuz then that, that's what we end with.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: Queer joy I, soccer and, and dates this weekend. So I went to my kid's soccer game and just loving sports as a queer parent.

When I, I love pulling into the soccer game and seeing like the Subarus and different with like the rainbow. The rainbow. I'm like, oh, there's the other queer parents. Like love it black, other queer parents. It's so cool. Hey.

Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.

Keely: So that's really fun. And being out in the world as a queer person and my joy of going, the thing that stuck out for me as a queer joy on the date was I walk in person's there.

And the, one of the first things they say is like, oh my gosh, I got here a little early. And they're like, and there's like multiple tables with bunch of homos here. And like I spotted friends and like people being out. There's so much joy. And just having those, being in Portland, being in a place that feels at least safe enough that we can flag really, obviously, where there's a button pin, how we're dress.

Melisa: Yeah.

Keely: There's, you know, different things that we flag and you're like, yay.

Melisa: Totally, totally.

Keely: I never get over it. And especially cuz when you go to different other restaurants or other cafes that are so obviously not, or you get outside, go to the suburbs of Portland and you're like, this is such a different experience than what I'm in Portland.

Melisa: Yeah, yeah.

Keely: Queer joy just hanging with all the queers and seeing them out and about.

Melisa: Yeah. It is huge. It's, I was thinking about that with Portland the other day. Like it just feels like in queer spaces, like permission to always. Like dress up, like costume or not, like, just really express yourself through your presentation that like, doesn't seem to exist in every, in other, in other like pockets, you know? Um, yeah,

it's great. Portland's great. Yeah. Cool. Well, my, I was, I was telling Keeley earlier, I will share my actual queer joy, which has more weight, but part of my less weighty queer joy is that, my, my aversion to social media, the way that I'm doing TikTok, is by posting cat videos, cuz I already take them all the time.

And evidently it's a big seller on TikTok.

Keely: Oh yeah.

Melisa: And so this video of my cat literally just like meowing, right? Like making little squeaks now has 3000 views.

Keely: Woo.

Melisa: Wow. It's not viral. I understand but like to me, I'm like, holy crap, that's a lot of people. Like randomly just watching my cat make sound.

What is this? What is this platform? But it has brought me some joy. No, the queer Joy is one that I've been working on for a really long time, and probably should have rehearsed how I was gonna say it on here. But I have been, I've referenced that I've been working on my relationship professionally and with capitalism.

And for me as a therapist, what that means is I'm entering a new phase and I am, I've started a private practice, so I am branching out into the world of being a private practice therapist. And that is, I mean, there's so much joy just in, you know, I decided I wanted to be a therapist in 2012, so like, what a long road to get here.

I'm tired and I got student loans to pay, you know, so that's part of the motivation. but there's a real joy that I wanna highlight Keeley, and I think this is a good. We've talked about all sorts of queer relationships on the podcast, and we've talked about our relationship. and it changes our relationship, right?

Like we're doing the podcast, but like at some point you're not gonna be my employer anymore, which is really interesting. And so I think it's really like cool to be able to model that on the podcast. And yes, I do plan to continue the podcast. All of you listeners. never fear. But I think it's a cool way to model, like how our relationship is shifting.

And I do wanna give you so many props, Keely, because I've not had the experience where, I mean, I've not had an experience where I could even be this vocal about what was happening in a very public way, even before it happens. And have so much support from you. Genuine support, not just, not just lip service to support, but like actionable steps that you have.

You've shown me support and so, I really appreciate that and it's, I think it's a really good representation of healthy relationship transitions, so thank you.

Keely: You're welcome.

Melisa: Yeah. And those of you interested, you know, I am licensed both in California and Oregon, so that's where I'm gonna be taking my clients.

From Teletherapy. I don't really know. I do have a social media handle, but I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with that yet. but if you are local and are looking for me to be your therapist, you can check on my website at therapeuticideas.com.

Keely: Yay. So on that note, yes, ah, so much transitions and new energy ushering in all of this beautiful energy.

I hope. We hope you all have a queer and joyful week.

Thanks for listening to queer relationships, queer joy. A podcast by the Connective Therapy Collective. Hosted by Keely C. Helmick Melissa DeSegiurant with audio edited by me and Ley Supapo Bernido. I'm your producer, Cardinal marking. Inter music is by bad snacks. If this episode made you smile or think, tell us about it. If you hated it.

Tell us about that. Review us on iTunes or Spotify, or send us an email at media at Connective Therapy. Collective dot com. For more queer joy, visit our Instagram at queer relationships, queer joy, or our website www dot Connective Therapy. Collective dot com. Love ya. Bye.

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