In this episode we talk about destabilizing the relationship hierarchy, finding pleasure in unexpected places, and creating community. This is a re-release of our interview with Tuck Malloy on epsidoe 5, season 1 of QRQJ.
Tuck's IG: @intra_sensual
Queer Relationships, Queer Joy
FB & IG: @queer_relationships_queer_joy
Listen here:
TRANSCRIPT
ep 68
Melisa: Hi everyone. Welcome back to Queer Relationships Queer Joy. For those of you who are tuning in for the first time, I'm one of your hosts, Melisa DeSegiurant, licensed professional counselor and Marriage and family therapist. Joined by my co-host, Keely C. Helmick certified sex therapist and licensed professional counselor.
This week we're doing something a little different and revisiting an episode from our very first season. In this episode, we are joined by holistic sex educator Tuck Malloy to discuss relationship anarchy, building community, and embodying queer pleasure.
This was one of those foundational interviews that we've referenced several times since recording it. It felt like it was time to give it some new life. Let us know what you think.
Tuck: Hi everyone. Welcome
Keely: back to Queer Relationships Queer Joy. I'm Keely C. Helmick. I'm Melisa DeSegiurant, and we are hanging out today with. We're gonna let them introduce themselves because I don't wanna mess up anybody's names, last names, whatever. But I do wanna say, we like to start the show with introducing ourselves and then Melisa and I, our intro has become shorter and shorter.
Cause we're like, if you wanna know the whole thing, go back to
Melisa: previous episode. Go back and read episode or read, listen to episode one.
Keely: You'll learn all the things. Um, my pronouns are they them. I am a queer gender fluid, non-binary femme sometimes. Relationship status is now super single. Yeah, that's it for now.
Yeah. And I'm
Melisa: Melisa, I use she, her pronouns. I'm bisexual, polyamorous, solo, poly, all the things. Still, still, you know, making profiles to leading 'em still on that game.
Tuck: Yeah, and I'm Tuck Malloy. I use they them pronouns. I'm a non-binary and trans human and I also am a holistic sex educator. And yeah, super queer, love that, always been that way.
But you know, it has taken many iterations in my life. So right now I live with a partner in the Bay Area, but actually right now I'm in Portland and I'm staying with one of my like, Life partners who's an, an important connection to me. So yeah, we're, I'm no monogamous poly like that also, and a relationship anarchist.
So I feel like all of those turns kind of like, none of them quite land for me. So I, I use them differently on different days, but yeah. I'm stoked to talk to y'all. Yay. We've
Keely: had some feedback from listeners, um, that were like, oh, what are the different. Vocab. And so for those, I would love to hear, when you say relationship anarchist, what are you just saying?
Tuck: Yeah, I would love to explain that. Uh, because I think it's a really powerful term and idea that is also, Also been in all of our lives in lots of ways for, you know, for years, like in human history, people have been practicing relationship anarchy because essentially it is the destabilization of a hierarchy in which.
Romantic and sexual relationships are prioritized above all other relationships. So yeah, that term I think, can feel good to some people and not great to other people. Like terms are always like that. labels are always like that, but I find it to be helpful. I like the idea of, of anarchy, of like chaos in and like embracing that in a productive and collaborative way because uh, I think that.
Cool. And feels kind of witchy to me, but, but it's, it's definitely not an orientation of thinking about relationships that is chaotic necessarily. Like all relationships get to sort of emerge. In the way that they want to. And I feel like that thinking about that, like being like, okay, this relationship just has space to kind of grow into whatever it wants.
If it wants to be a friendship that has, you know, just like a lot of cuddles and hugs, that's great. Like if it wants to be a long, long term. Long distance, like, you know, power play dynamic. Like it can be that if it wants to shift between different kinds of things, it can, like the relationship just sort of gets to show up as it is more organically.
I love
Melisa: the way you talk about making space for like that to naturally evolve and happen. We've been talking a lot about getting rid of the relationship escalator and all of these steps which comes, you know, at least from my perspective, so much from a heterosexual like mono. Lens anyways. So, but spaciousness, that's a great concept.
Tuck: Yeah. I definitely feel like that's what no monogamy has brought to my life is just spa like, feeling like, okay, there, there are options for me. Like there are no conversations that, uh, can't happen even if they're really hard. or even triggering or, you know, super painful. There's still, there's space for those feelings also.
Cuz I feel like in my life I've, if anything, my experience of exploring relationships outside of the like cis hetero patriarchy realm has been. Not just like, you know, super fun all the time, like there are big hard feelings in there, but they can still be coupled with pleasure and love and safety, which it kind of sounds like is part of what y'all are vibing in this podcast is being like, let's like bring it back to where we find joy and connection and.
Just good, yummy, sexy, queer feelings. Yeah, exactly. And like how you're saying,
Keely: and even just like expanding, it's not, there's gonna be, there are a lot of interviews with romantic couples, but it's not. The focus is not just romantic, it's like expanding, like you were saying, of like our relationships, our connections with all kind in all different kinds of ways.
Tuck: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, like I was mentioning before, people have been living like that for a really long time. Having a relationship. I mean, so I think a good example of this is can you think about, you know, in any society, Before it was colonized. There is often just a lot of different kinds of relationships that really matter to people, and sometimes there's like an emphasis on there's, okay, these ones are really important, or like, we really need these ones.
But I think the, yeah, this experience of being straight couple, married, the nuclear family. Is very much like a white patriarchy culture thing that has. Been brought into all of our lives without our consent. , ,
Keely: and we're making feel bad. Or sometimes we can be made to feel bad. Or like the idea of like so many, it's like compulsory heterosexuality.
Compulsory monogamy. Like this idea of this is what you're supposed to do. And then we have this internalized shame. Internalized negativity if we're not living life in that way. Even the way
Melisa: they talk about, like, you know, being polyamorous, I've had people refer, oh, it's an alternative lifestyle, and like mm-hmm.
alternative to, to what? ? Yeah. You know, like this is just a lifestyle. .
Tuck: Yeah. That's such a good point. Like always being put in that. Alternate space of being. You are almost like the shadow space of being. Either you're in the light and it's, you can show up and be present and be public or you can be like this alternative thing, but we don't wanna talk about as much.
There's just like weird and kooky and, and we literally sometimes cannot share with people in our life, which can really
Doug: suck.
Well,
Keely: speaking of public, so you've had been doing some things on Instagram and you have some classes and do you wanna tell our listeners more about what you're doing or just how you showed the world?
Tuck: Yeah, I have a lot of different projects happening right now cuz recently I was like, okay, I really want to do this sex education work full-time.
And like many people who. Or navigating capitalism, which is all of us, like I've been doing, you know, side jobs or day jobs. And then basically working double time, also work teaching classes and creating content on Instagram. So a couple months ago I was like, okay, I really wanna give myself a chance to show up fully in this work and, and trust that my community is gonna catch me in that and hold me in that.
which has been extremely terrifying, , but also really beautiful. And I really do feel like my community has been showing up for me in a really big way. And all of the people from like, you know, my very inner circle to radiating out to all of these other people who I've been able to. Talk to in my dms on Instagram who have just a quick question and I'm like, I, I feel very available right now to, to offering just knowledge and, and support and resources to people for free.
But I also am very available to helping people more long term and affirming. The need to be paid for that, which is scary as well. So yeah, I do a lot of work with people one-on-one, basically doing like a curated sex education curriculum. The thing that made me really want to go in that direction is that when I was in school, my most powerful learning experiences were when I would go to a teacher's office hours.
Mm-hmm. . or when I had a chance to talk to them after class and I could be like, Hey, I didn't know how to ask this question in class because it felt too complicated. Or like, I have these other questions related to this topic, and they'd be like, okay, yes, let's break it down. So I, I want to give people that experience of.
Being able to have the safety container of one a, one-on-one interaction, but still like we're learning together, you know, and we can explore whatever people want, which is really fun for me. A lot of the time people will show up to a class and be like, okay, yes, we're doing this class. And then halfway through they're like, oh my gosh, I'm realizing that I have all of these question.
About this other thing and I'm like, okay, great. Do you want to just talk about that right now? I have that knowledge. I can give that to you right now or we can do another class in the future. It's really collaborative, which feels really good and, and similarly feels like a destabilizing a lot of the structure of traditional teaching styles.
That is awesome. And then I also teach group classes too. I'm teaching a fisting workshop this week with Gabrielle Cassell, which I'm really excited about. . I love that. . Yeah. And that's just like, you know, we were both on Instagram posting about fisting. . And then we had the little exchange in our dms being like, oh, love that you're talking about that.
Love that you're talking about that. And then we were like, wait, we could talk about it together. And I think that's been really special too, to see that. This non-competitive energy. Yeah. Among people, which again reminds me very much of my experience in relationships of like navigating that with metas or like friends of friends or like wherever jealousy comes up.
And so it's been really cool to feel in myself this desire that other people really succeed. and also be like, oh, I wanna get to know them more. I want to work with them. I want to be with them. Because yeah, that is not something that is encouraged.
Keely: No. At all. At all. No, not we're, you know, part of a small group practice, and when I'm talking to other group practice owners, it always has this.
This edge, this like, like this. Squeaky like, ooh, it feels a little awkward. And then, and I'll be like, oh, let's do this. And yeah, I found recently I've been reaching out cuz I've really been, I just wanna say I'm so excited about the fisting because it has such a negative connotation and it's so fucking rad and I'm so glad that y'all are talking about it.
But yeah, the competitive piece, Reaching out and wanting to work with people and they'll be like, oh yeah, well here's my price list. And I was like, oh, I'm glad you charged for your service. I was actually just wanting to collaborate or like talk, but like if you want me to pay for your time, we can talk about what that means.
But like, no, I just wanna like collaborate. Yeah. What other people are doing and how can we cross post and promote each other's. Stuff. And for us at the Collective, like we can talk about you to be like, oh, here's sex education. We can do sex ed in our, in our sessions, but we're actually, the sessions are better off if we collaborate and have.
Sex coaches working with us and sex educators. And then there's all these other realms that people can explore.
Melisa: One thing we've talked about too, even as like therapists, like we don't have the monopoly on mental health or sexual health or pleasure. Like I would want my clients to be seeking, you know, community and support and information everywhere they can get it.
And so that's part of my agenda too, even with this podcast of like building
Tuck: community. Mm-hmm. having more of us working together. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel the same way in the other direction where like, I'll often ask my students like, you know, what does your support system look like? Because if we, if we reach an edge, like if something comes up where you're feeling triggered or activated, let's make a safety plan for you.
That's within my wheelhouse of being, okay, cool. Who do you know? Who can you go to, including your therapist or me being great. Let me help you find a therapist. Like, let me, let me do that research for you to come up with a list. Queer therapists who are going to get what is going on with you, . Um, so I mean, it's all, it's all the same as, as navigating that stuff.
In relationships of being like, okay, yeah, my partner needs this thing. I'm reaching this edge. If I can't give this to them, I don't have space for this today. And being like, cool. Yeah. Do you wanna reach out to your friend or your other partner? Like, let's make a plan for you. Or like, you know, just like a collaborative community experience feels very cool, very sexy.
Keely: Yeah. And so much more queer joy and pleasure, like accessibility. Yeah. But that collaboration, I think when you were, the way you were saying that, cause I think about like folks from monogamous, especially listeners are monogamous and using that framework to still be like, yeah, you can ha be monogamous.
Sexually. You can have a monogamous, sexual and romantic partner, but you still have all these other humans and these capabilities of connecting and building relationship and building intimacy. I hate so much. How intimacy is the code for sex? Like No. Like
Tuck: who are you intimate with? Yes, yes. It's such a classic question and it's like I'm intimate with a lot of people.
I don't have sex with that many people right now because again, like the pandemic too, I feel. Has changed everything for me in terms of the way that I'm relating to people. It's just not, I don't have the capacity, literally the social capacity to go on dates in the way that I used to, and it doesn't feel safe or accessible to the people in my bubble or my circle.
And so that's really required me to reckon with these things of being like, okay, yeah, maybe I'm having sex with one person. , you know, my relationships are still oriented towards destabilizing any kind of, uh, like script that is making me feel like I have to be one kind of way. , and I feel like that's why a lot of the time, yeah.
With my students who are interested in exploring, no monogamy or interested in exploring monogamy like whate. Wherever they're where they are, I'm like, let's explore all of the relationship frameworks styles. Like let's just learn about everything that people have given names to and then from. Piece it together and make something that's working for you and your partners
Doug: in your life,
Tuck: what would
Keely: you tell yourself? If you could go back to yourself five or 10 years ago before, what would you tell yourself back then now that you have learned with your relationship dynamics? Who you are as a human and how you relate to people
Tuck: differently. Yeah, it's such a good question too, because I'm trying to think of like my timeline.
Five years ago, like I was not like out as non-binary. I was, I was having my first more intentional queer relationships. I had, I had been in a relationship that was like really loving and supportive to me and like I felt very seen in my queerness, but, wasn't having as, as many queer relationships as I wanted to.
Mm-hmm. as many sexual experiences as I wanted to. So it was like right at that cusp. And I think I would've just been like, Hey, this is really exciting, . I think I would've just been like, Hey, I'm really excited for you. I'm like getting a little emotional. Cause I'm like, that's it. Just, I think at that point I had no idea how.
Joy and pleasure was gonna come into my life, and everything felt so scary, and I felt like all of these steps that I was taking to. Be more intentional about connecting with queer people in whatever realm. Like as friends, I just, I didn't have that many queer friends. I just, I didn't feel like I had a queer community.
And so that was like right at this point where I was like, I need to, I need to find this. And it, it felt. Scary and ex, but exciting and, but I just had no idea how good it was gonna be. , like, I was like, it was like my, like, I had no idea how much my mind was gonna be consistently blown by how delicious queer people are as friends, like as lovers, as relationships.
How much more pleasure I was gonna feel in my physical body, especially in exploring gender identity and, and then relating to people in that way. I just, there were so many things that I didn't realize, like, oh yeah, you know, just. Feeling off all day long, like that's just not something that I feel anymore in the same way.
Like I'll have emotional ups and downs, but it was just like now I'm like, okay, yeah, I can just, I feel like I can show up to something like this podcast or whatever and be like, yeah, I'm just, I'm good with showing up with the way that I look, with the way that I feel internally, and I'm not. I'm trying to hide my exterior and that is very pleasurable.
like that feels really good. Well, and you, I show yourself on Instagram . Oh yeah, totally . It's so great.
Keely: It's so great. Just like the gender bending, the, just fucking free sexual your, your presence like so in your body presence. So
Melisa: yeah,
Tuck: it's, it's remark. Thank you. Yeah, I feel really grateful too. My partner is a really talented photographer and filmmaker, so the collaboration that we do together is super special because I feel like I can fully show up and be like, Really, like previously at different points in my life, I didn't feel like I could like be in front of a camera super easily, but like we've built that relationship, that safety mm-hmm.
So then it's like, then we're just playing and it feels really good to share that with the world. Sometimes I have like moments where I'm like, this is like a lot, like I'm really sharing like a lot, like this is my whole body like. This is like a window into my literal sex life. And then other times I'm like, you know what?
Like, that's fine. The reason why this is so edgy is because we never, we never get that, and so often the representations of sex that we get are not coming from an embodied place. Yeah. So I think it feels more intimate because you can tell that I'm like, there.
Keely: You can go on the internet and see all kinds of bodies and sex and sexual displays, but not like you have that very specific, and I, I don't, I don't always know how to describe it to sis he folks, but it's like, you're, you're so fucking queer. And it's like the weights we just show. So like as a queer person, like, oh my God, that's so amazing.
Oh my God, I love it. Like I was embarrassed to, I was kind of embarrassed to do this interview actually. Cause I'm like, they are so hot and I'm going. So nervous. Sorry. And I'm turning red right now, but I like, I felt like it was appropriate to say it this time, but like, yeah. Cause it's such something you just don't see very much at all.
Cuz And we were even saying earlier, like, even like porn, like, oh two women, you know, it's like cis white, I
Melisa: can't watch straight girls in porn pretending not to be straight any mm-hmm like it's a turn off. You can feel energetically that like there's nothing. That's not for me. ,
Tuck: you know, there's nothing
Melisa: connecting there with anything actually
Tuck: queer.
Yeah. That's so real. I watching queer porn, like with queer people, like Crash pad series was the fir was the first one that I really watched that I was like, I felt like I, the first couple of times that I watched videos or content from Crash Pad, it was like I couldn't even like really engage with like actually like masturbating cuz I just was like having such an intense, like full body experience being like, Like, I felt like I was so stimulated that I had to bring it down many notches, , like before I was like, okay, yeah, now I can like engage with this in a sexy way.
But I just, yeah, it felt way more intense to watch. But I think again, that's like something that I really. love is exploring those different kinds of connections, that different kind of energy because when you have a strong, when you have strong boundaries and strong consent practices mm-hmm. , then like we can share, like we can share that like appreciation for each other.
Being like, you're super hot, you're super hot. We're loving this. Like everyone's sexy. You can share that without it feeling scary or. fearful or activating If there, if there is a container Yeah. In which people feel like they can say, okay, that's actually not how I wanna be talked to, or this is the way I wanna be experienced, or, you know, this is, this is the, our relationship outside of this moment where we're just like, yay, you look so hot in those pictures.
When I was, when I was in college, I had a group of friends who used to share, we just had a feed of like, Our nudes, we would just share our nudes with each other and it was just like an appreciation. Oh my God, I love that. Yeah. So I, I feel like I've been trying to find more people like that in my life.
Then I'm like, yes. I just, I would love to show up and. , witness your sexiness in a way that feels good to you, . Oh yes.
Keely: Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's, well, and to have that modeling, like I think about, so, um, we think about like youth a lot and like having this, this modeling, this role modeling. Cuz I know, and I'll age my, I mean, never know.
I'm 41. So my experience when I look at my high school experience and even in my twenties, it's so different. And I know I sound old saying it. So, so, so different. And like now at 41, I feel such an expansion of like, I don't give a fuck what anybody says. I'm gonna be on the dance floor. I'm gonna be like showing up with all my things.
Like I'm gonna be talking about all the things and it's great. And that's why we're here talking about this, is that people have modeling. Something that's real and authentic and embodied and raw, and this way that everyone can be and can incorporate all these pieces. Even this is hetero monogamy people.
Tuck: They can learn from this too. , they're also welcome. Yeah.
Keely: Have you heard of the book? Tragedy of Heterosexuality?
Tuck: No. Tell me about Together right now. Mind-blowing. Mind
Keely: blowing. Mind blowing .
Tuck: Yeah. What, what's the, what is it about ? Like, tell me. Well,
Keely: it's basically like, Hey, there's all these like statistics y'all aren't doing so well. Like, how can we help you? And so it's like a cis white gay woman who like is academic and she does all this research and is like basically, which it says something about like, I really, after reading that book was like, oh my gosh.
Basically she outlines how our history of counseling and psychology and like. Self-help trying to force people to be together. They don't wanna be together. Mm-hmm. like, that's like the premise, like, oh, here, let's, let's, let's figure out and help cis men how to be nice to me. And how do women try to get men to be attracted, and how do we get them to want to have sex?
Melisa: and, and, and the piece that's really standing out to me too is this departure from pleasure. Yes. Completely. Especially for like, you know, women in that arrangement that it's not really about what feels good to you, like none, nothing about that. You know, it's how to be desirable. How to be, yeah. It's how to follow
Tuck: that escalator,
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, I think it's been a really powerful experience to have students who. In a very different place when we started working together than where they are at the end. I have noticed that a lot of, especially like queer trans educators who are like very understandably exhausted of dealing with people's bullshit, who are like, I don't wanna work with cis men.
You know, . And I'm like, yeah, that makes so much sense. , big vibe. And then other times I'm like, I actually like, feel really available to folks who are monogamous and are in mm-hmm. , uh, In our, in a gender binary right now. Um, in a mindset, because I've met so many people who have, like, as soon as they felt like it was a possibility for them to break out of it, they were like, okay, yeah, I'm interested in not none of that now.
Keely: Yeah.
Melisa: Well, and so much permission, like even some of my, you know, straight monogamous couples just saying like, look, there's not a b. I just like, I've had feedback like how much relief that brought and I feel like that's a way that I can, like as a colleague, queer a person do feel somewhat privileged in that way.
Cause like I feel permission to be playful and expansive and like whatever, you know, I'm not trapped by that system anymore. And giving other folks who may still stay in those sort of identities, but permission to. Spaciousness
Keely: again, be playful. I mean, I think there's a lot of space. I don't necessarily wanna do that work, but I definitely am encouraging, you know, there are men stepping up that are like wanting to have more openness and be able to like talk more about emotions and sexually explore more and.
Yeah. And I'm like, that's awesome and we can help them. And that's not always the best client for me. .
Tuck: Yeah. We gotta do our self-care
Melisa: too and be real
Tuck: about what's, yeah. That's so important. Like that's such a pleasurable experience too, to be like, I know what my limitations are, I know what my boundaries are.
I'm gonna affirm that and be like, this is how I'm available, so I'm gonna show up because you are out here being like, yes, like people. You should do that work. Other people should do that work, . And that's part of the collaboration piece too, is being working in our community to be like, I'm not gonna do it, but somebody should and I want, and when I see that they're doing it, I'm gonna support them.
wait. So, okay.
Keely: Listeners, if there's anybody out there who's, who wants to work with these dudes and really passionately help them, . Yeah. Ems. Let us know. Email us.
Tuck: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm down for it. I feel like I'm down for any student who comes my way, uh, because I like really try to. To create a container where I'm like, this is what's going to happen here.
This is how we will be interacting with each other. And I as a sex educator too, I feel like I have the freedom to be like, okay, actually you're making me feel uncomfortable. And so we're gonna close this relationship for now and we're gonna close our work together. And I think that that is a great, powerful skill too, that is not often talked about and we are so often not given.
Space and affirmations to say no to people and have that be a pleasurable experience to be like, oh, that felt really good. When I said no, felt really good that I don't have to do that anymore. ,
Keely: I love how much you talk about pleasure. I mean, I guess cuz you're a sex educator, but it's just like pleasure.
It's like, yes, spin our bodies and just be about pleasure. That's our barometer. I
Tuck: love the pleasure.
Melisa: That's gonna stick with me for a while. , you can be saying no, being ple. . Thank you for that. . That's huge. That's really huge cuz there's so much fear for so many folks about saying no or setting a boundary or guilt that we have boundaries, which is so sad to me.
You know? Of course we have our limitations and our boundaries and making that pleasurable and celebrating that I think is great.
Tuck: Mm-hmm. ? Yeah, I'm definitely all about pleasure. and it's, I mean, it's almost a joke among my friends how much I'm like, what if we felt a little bit more pleasure today? Or like, how could we feel a little bit more ple?
What would be like pleasurable to do? So I feel available to be a little bit roasted for that, because sometimes I feel like, I'm like, yeah, it's just broken record with being like, what is, you know, are we experienced pleasures? Are you, are we in our bodies right now? Where, where are we experiencing some pleasure when we watch this movie?
Keely: Oh my gosh, I
Doug: love it.
Keely: Well, speaking of pleasure, we like to wrap up the podcast with, um, each episode talking about our queer joy of who we.
Tuck: Ooh. I love it. Melisa,
Keely: do you wanna go first? I kinda think, I think I figured out my boat. Do you wanna go first? Yeah,
Tuck: I will. I will. I had,
Melisa: well, I had two this week. It was such a joyful, pleasurable week.
No, the one I wanted to share spins off of something we've talked about before, this whole like autonomy and connection and how to navigate those and. we had, I had made the claim that I do take myself out on dates and I did and it was so great. It was so great. I went and like was in a nice outdoor place where I could do a lot of people watching on Sunday and I just really love people watching and to be able to give myself permission to not feel uncomfortable or to me to look busy or, but just to be like, yeah, I'm chilling here.
This is my day. Like how are you all doing ? It was so great. I had the best time.
Tuck: Oh, I love it. I'm so glad you had that
Keely: experie. Okay, I'll go. Yeah, sure. I, so my career, joy, so I am doing the whole exploring, like lots of different relation, like lots of different connection. I had a recent breakup that's really, really, really hard and emotional and so my career joy was that I went out and actually I went out to a bar that I often go to.
I know the owners, it's like pretty queer for years, and I walk in and I'm. Whoa. I'm like, there's a lot of dudes. There's like a lot of guys and it's like, it's like a group of gay men that go like barhop together, but we're talking like, you know, when you're like used to being in like lots of different bodies and all of a sudden it's like, like really tall cis dudes that like lots of like, I couldn't even get inside.
So I was like, okay. So I, I turned around and I saw just two random people talking. and these two women, we just, I was like, Hey, did what's going on in there? And we just started chatting and I like made a new friend, oh. And this little queer baby who's in my neighborhood and she like, we've been texting and she got like her first tattoo and she's asking me about the dating apps and it's just so, I love it.
So
Tuck: much. That's so cute. There's something so, so magical too about like having friends of all ages. I love that so much. Yeah. I have a really great seven year old friend who is. You know, just out here exploring stuff in the world and it's so brilliant to watch them, you know, just kind of vibe every day being like, yeah, today is they them pronouns?
Or like, you know, like at one point I remember asking, asking her, I was brought up something about like being bisexual or that word. And she was like, what does that mean? And I was like, oh, that means, you know, if you like people who are the same gender as you or other genders. And she was like, She's like, of course.
Who is it? Everyone like that . Oh, I love it. I was like, cool. Yeah. I feel like for me this week I have been having a very complex, lots of different emotions kind of week, but it really, the, the big queer joy for me is just being able to stay, um, in the house that I'm in right now with. My ex and my like, who's also my like current love and friend and just, yeah, life partner vibes and it's just really sweet.
We were talking last night about how we've been able to hold on to like, we've been able to transform our romantic love into something that's even like bigger and more expansive without. trying to like, kill off those feelings, you know? We were able to just be like, okay, now we're gonna move into this big friendship that has a lot in it, but it's just so special.
Hugging them, I, I'm like, oh, well I'm just hugging this person who I've loved in so many different ways, and I can feel all of that in the hug and it feels very queer and very loving. .
Keely: What a great way to wrap up well before. I just want people to be able to know how to get ahold of you and learn more about
Tuck: you.
Yeah, so my Instagram is at intra.com, . My website is intra.com, or I also have a Teachable web website that's intra education. dot teachable.com. So those are ways that you can find me. But also I feel like if people are like those websites confusing, like I'm very available on Instagram, very available to dms and Oh yeah.
And also my email is Tuck Malloy education@gmail.com. I like, I feel like everything is a different name. I need to streamline that a bit. .
Keely: It's all good.
It's
Tuck: all good. I'm around. Yeah. Thank you both so much. This was such a lovely, nourishing conversation for my afternoon. Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you for being here.
Yeah.
Melisa: I'm so glad to have your voice as part of our, our journey to share more queer joy with
Tuck: the community. Yeah. It's a really important project. Thank you Tuck. Yeah, thank you both. All right.
Keely: Bye.
Doug: Bye, everybody.
Just everything. Everything. It's just the.
You wanna stay? I'll make it worth time. Just take hold of my head and watch.
Do You Alive? I know you feel. Be better with me. Better with me. Be better with me. Better with me. So stay here with me. Stay here with me. Be better with me.