What’s the difference between a red flag and an misplaced expectation? Have you ever put someone on a pedestal and then later found out they weren't who you thought they were? What if you don’t want to meet your heroes? Hear it all on this episode of the Queer Joy Podcast; where two relationship therapists explore what it looks like to see joy in queer relationships.
Lucie Fielding Workshop: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/sex-therapy-beyond-binaries-nurturing-trans-erotic-embodiments
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Keely: Queer longing is a very, I think a typical thing that people talk about when they talk about queer relationships, I think it's often especially emphasized, uh, around sapphic relationships.
Keely: Hello everyone. Welcome back to Queer Relationships, Queer Joy.
Melisa: We're back and we are queer .
Keely: Here we are, Melisa and I. Yeah, let's just do intros real quick.
Keely: By the way, we, it's just Melisa and I today. No guests today. So we'll be talking at your ear. My name is Keely C. Helmick. I am the owner of Connective Therapy Collective. I'm a licensed professional counselor and a certified sex therapist. Pronouns they them non-binary queer femme, who is very single right now, and mainly non-monogamous, non-monogamish, non monogamous mindset. I don't know. It's changing all the time. Just like everything. It's on a spectrum. It's fluid. Out of everything I would say my relationship dynamic is fluid. Yeah.
Melisa: Yeah. And I'm Melisa DeSegiurant. I'm licensed as a marriage and family therapist and professional counselor. I'm white bisexual. I'm able-bodied. I am polyamorous. I am partnered and polysaturated. and I am gender fluid I use she and they pronouns.
Keely: Yay. So, updates. And then I wanted to, we talked about earlier, bringing up the topic of queer longing.
Melisa: As soon as you said that too, I like, feel it in my bones. I don't know what it means. Maybe we'll figure that out. Maybe not, but I feel it.
Keely: Yeah. I mean, so as far as updates, I will say, I mean, this is gonna be released weeks later than recording for our schedule. But I did have just quite, quite the polyamory experience. I ended up, so I had a person that I had hooked up with last year through the apps and then we like went on like four or five dates or whatever and hooked up, they're not monogamous. And they got back together with the primary partner.
And when they did that, it was very clear, like the dynamic they wanted within their, that relationship didn't work with us being having any kind of sexual, romantic relationship together. So we ended up and just remained friends. And we've been friends for this past year. It's probably been about a year now, and I think on an earlier episode I'd mentioned that their primary partner had actually reached out to me to talk to me about the dynamic cuz there was jealousy stuff because of their own dynamics together and just, how I was introduced into their lives. and so we all went and had brunch on Saturday together.
Yeah. It was just like so cool to see how everyone talking and hanging out and humanizing things really felt really powerful. And both of these people and me, the three of us have been in non-monogamous and polyamorous dynamics, different situations and so, it's not like brand new to any of us.
Keely: It was really nice. It was really evident with our conversations. And then actually they ended up through a situation going on with the person's house, they ended up spending the night.
Melisa: Yeah, yeah.
Keely: Using one of my spare rooms. And so I was like, oh my gosh. Like how? It was just really beautiful, honestly, because I think that in the past I've talked about here and there, the idea of healing within community and what that could look like and I feel like I just have the experience, not that this works for everybody, but that it is a, an example of how healing in community can occur.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. And you talk so much about relationship transitions and
Melisa: I think that's a really good example of how the concept of relationship transitions can be helpful in that it, it isn't an immediate ending, and now we have these assumed boundaries that are based on a monogamous programming. You know, you can find other ways of being in relationship, like you said, and healing through past jealousies and other dynamic.
Keely: Well, and I wonder, and I'd be so interested to hear from folks that are monogamous. I feel like even within monog-, sexual and romantic monogamy within especially the queer community, there's still so much connection to exes and people that I have previous sexual romantic relationships with. And so this model of being able to talk and hang out and have healing and resolution, all together.
Um, because I think another thing that comes up outside of not, it can happen in non monogamy obviously as well, but especially in monogamy, is this constant debate of staying friends with exes.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: And so this really exemplified that. And it's interesting cuz even one of the people was talking, they were talking about relationships that they've had in the past and juggling being friends with exes and how people feel about that. Or even like living with exes and juggling all that. And it's not for the fan of heart, for sure.
Melisa: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
Keely: But I do think it's interesting, and maybe I'll get more into this after you update, that within this dynamic I was also seeing or reading on Instagram Shrimp Teeth. They go by Shrimp Teeth and they were talking about how they're bowing out of nonmonogamy for a while.
Keely: They're like, this is too much work.
Keely: Reflecting on how much work it is, and anyway, it was just interesting, these different shifting. Things going on with springtime and as people do monogamy or non-monogamy and how that interacts with what's going on with the queer community.
Melisa: Yeah, it's fascinating. Your update's very relevant, Keely, I feel like I actually have a similar one in a lot of ways. Maybe it's just nonmonogamy and seasonal shifts or I don't know.
Yeah, I would say. In the last couple weeks especially, which it's sort of funny to realize this because I would've liked to think I was doing this all along, but I think it's like more embodied now that I'm really looking at all of my relationships as a system. And this is something that I've said on this podcast.
So again, this is not a new concept for me, but I think each time something in this system changes I'm, I'm like more aware that it is a system I'm in and not just a isolated, siloed, you know, connection. but there's a lot of shifting happening in, I would say, like the external parts of my system. So not in my direct relationships, but my partner's relationships or metamor relationships and things like that.
And it's been interesting to see how much program, and we've talked about this before, even like how do you progress or deepen relationships outside of the hierarchy. And I'm finding myself really actively having to dismantle those things still, you know, like it's okay, as you said, to live with your ex or someone who's just platonic or whatever.
And that doesn't have to mean anything about that relationship or that person's capacity for other relationships or romance or sex like, so it's really rewarding right now to find myself very actively dismantling these things and what I'm finding, and I feel, I feel really grateful because to me, this is a sign of all the work I have been doing personally for the last several years.
But I'm relaxed. I've, I'm finding that I'm more comfortable. But it is a system of people. And then I,I'm, and this is an experience I've had with nonmonogamy before, especially when the idea of multiple sexual relationships came in. That was a big relief for me of like, great, I don't have to be into every single thing you're into because I'm not.
Melisa: You know, and you don't have to like the way I wanna do things cuz I can find other people for that. You know? Um, that was relieving I think in the beginning, but this is different. This is like this is back to the autonomy and connection. Like if I'm involved in systems, that means I still get to be an autonomous person and there's nobody, the concept that came up in some of my check-ins this week was like not having this idea that one person's gonna fulfill all your hopes and dreams, you know?
Melisa: And I did a little collage just to invite people into this expressive arts exercise. I did a collage on my hopes and dreams. Not like a vision board, but like, just like literally hopes and dreams. What does that mean for me? Right? . Um, cause it, it came out of a check and it, I'm like, Ooh, that's interesting.
I think I've done that before. I put all my hopes and dreams on like one relationship. What was really interesting to me, , uh, relationships were not a part of these hopes and dreams, not my current ones. Not to say I don't wanna be in relationship, but that's not my focus right now, at least my relationship with humans. You know? So feel like that was a kind of a big, a big but also vague update. But yeah, I'm really, really feeling like I'm a part of systems here and, it feels really good and integrated. So I hope that continues for me.
Keely: Hmm. That's lovely. Oh, such a yummy check-in or update or,
Melisa: It's, it's probably partially too because I'm now feeling more integrated to where I'm living here. You know, I've been here for two and a half years now. you know, we're not in the isolated quarantine that was 2020 when I first moved to the Pacific Northwest, so that's probably part of it too, is I'm just feeling integrated, communally, in a way that I was not before.
Keely: That's so lovely.
Melisa: Yeah, good times.
Keely: So longing, queer longing. So we know, and we're always gonna put this out here, I feel like, no, I'm gonna have a queer joy. Sorry, I was just, I paused for a second. We're gonna talk about something that was brought up. Queer longing is a very, I think a typical thing that people talk about when they talk about queer relationships, I think it's often especially emphasized, uh, around sapphic relationships.
Keely: Or cis lesbian, in like movies and pop culture, but then obviously all queer people have stories, you know, regardless of gender and your identifying sexuality. This piece of longing that pops up in movies and writing when you and a lot of it, you know, the joke, I don't even, I won't say joke, but a stereotype of how many long distance relationships there are in the queer community.
Melisa: I'm laughing as I'm like, oh.
Melisa: Is that, is that a joke?
Keely: I am participating I guess in that. Well, yeah. I mean, I did, I'm coming up on going to a conference that I was going to last year and this time last year I met somebody and we tried the long distance thing. And I think whether it's long distance or in the same town or in the same state, there is this sense, I was just, I was feeling my curiosity of like, what does queer longing mean? What is this all about? How does it situationally play in? Because I think, when I think of how. We think about queer history, there was so much hiding and secrecy,
Keely: And there was also a lack of being able to, you know, safely be out. And there's, that's still the case for many states in the US countries around the world where people, it's not safe for people to be out.
And so this tension that can happen, and when I say tension, I'm meaning like the, that like sexual tension or those like
Keely: Feelings being really attracted to somebody, having a crush on somebody and how that develops within scarcity, with, it develops in secrecy and also some of it's fantasy.
Keely: And then I think about how potentially some of the queer longing also has to do with, you know, being really young. not necessarily young, I'm saying young cuz that was my experience, but it can be any age being really attracted to somebody or having a connection that you want more from. As a queer person with a straight person.
Melisa: I was thinking of that too. But even like the piece, you know, of course I hear queer longing and I think about my own, how self, how Leo of me that I, let me think about my own experience. I guess that's kinda what we do on the podcast anyway though, so maybe I don't need to shame myself for it, but just talking about that, like queer, like with a straight person, but also if you're repressed and you don't know, like that was partially my experience back in like high school. I didn't understand that other people didn't have the longing and the feelings that I had. So there was this added layer of like, is it just me? I don't know. Does everyone feel this way? Which I think just amped everything up because that was never, it wasn't normalized for me back then.
Hey, Hey, it's Cardinal. You're behind the scenes buddy. Do you remember our Lucy fielding episode? She came on the pod to talk about trans sex and I absolutely fell in love with her. While, if you fell in love with her too, we can fulfill our queer longing. And see her. In person, she's teaching a workshop in Portland, April 22nd, 2023. It's called sex therapy beyond binaries, nurturing, trans erotic embodiments, and it's worth for continuing education credits for you. Mental health professionals out there.
Helium Melissa will be there too. Find. More info at the link in the episode description.
if you miss that episode, It is called being ethically curious about transects it's episode 62.
All right. Back to the show.
Keely: Well, I wonder how it influences. The ways that queer people have, how we have relationships. If we become attuned to the queer longing that we then when things are more stable, how does that, I don't wanna say training, but experience of queer longing when you aren't having the same queer longing and other dynamics out of, you're not having the queer longing outta necessity and you don't have that built in tension.
Keely: Like the, the, the sexy, yummy tension.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Keely: Because like so many things like queer longing can be romanticized.
Keely: There definitely is in movies. I'm thinking, please. Oh. Portrait Of A Lady on Fire. That's the correct movie, right? That just epitomized this longing. And of course why, you know, it's in a different time period and you know, there's so many pieces to it, but the, the majority of the movie is built on this tension.
and even. I think about Killing Eve. Killing Eve is like the ultimate queer, queer longing because they don't even ever hook up officially, or do they wait? Oh gosh, someone
Melisa: I'm, I'm like, I need to watch more movies.
Keely: Okay. Just like the series, but these are like, pop,
Maybe I need to fact check I'm right. I don't think they ever, I think they kiss, but there's like so much tension built. Yeah.
Keely: And in these movies, that's how the plot moves. And that's what is dramatic and interesting.
But in both of those examples, they don't end up together. Yeah.
Keely: And so it's almost this as fun and dramatic and interesting as it is, it also perpetuates this idea that queer people don't have long-term relationships or that peer queer people. it's almost like it's always tragic.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: Tragedy of like, oh, they don't need to be together.
Melisa: Yeah. That's, I'm glad you brought up that word, Keely cuz I'm thinking like, okay, let's, like, longing also exists in straight relationship. I don't even like to call relationships straight, but like relationships between two cis het people, like there can be longing and there is this tra- even in those stories, there is like, okay. I went to a party recently that was like a Romeo, Juliet, the la- the Basler Man version party. This was my queer joy a couple weeks ago. Right? The nineties party. But like, what a tra like it, the whole romanticization is this tragic story. And I think when you think about longing and you put the tragedy aspect that informs queer longing even more because now it's not just the hormones and the tension of like, Ooh, I want that. And I don't know if I can have it. That perhaps any kind of, you know, person in relationship would feel. But then you've got the oppression. You've got years of people maybe even being repressed and not knowing their own sexuality. You've got, the lack of safety that adds into, so it raises the stakes.
Melisa: You know, and that's what can make this longing feel even more. I don't know, like, like I said, just bigger or more difficult to like, control or contain. but I also appreciate the point of this is part of why we might have those narratives internalized that queer relationships are always dramatic or they're, they don't last, or they're hot and heavy and that they fade away. Cuz if this is the only thing, we're modeling it after . Yikes.
Keely: And the way that Hollywood and you know, television companies, producers are contributing and pushing that narrative.
Melisa: Right, right.
Keely: And that's what we're seeing.
Melisa: Yeah. Because that's the plot love, right? I'm not a screenwriter, so I can't talk, man, if I still remembered what I learned in theater school, I would be great on this episode today.
No. But like there's a whole arc to the plot and the storyline and you build the tension and then it resolves, and then maybe there's another piece. And so that, I mean, yeah, it makes for a great story and it doesn't necessarily match what a lot of people want in their relationships.
Keely: Yeah. And even understanding, I mean, that's a whole nother episode and I'm sure we've definitely touched on that even in our sex therapy episode of checking in with what you actually want.
Keely: And within the cultural queer narrative is that really, it's still this can, you can't get that what you want, right? I mean, we're fighting for our rights right now.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: And so all over the board as a community, we are fighting and so,
Melisa: Yeah. And how does that, how does trauma impact long longing and ongoing trauma to the community and the trauma that the legislation is causing for people all over, you know, who are in the queer community
Keely: And that so we know that in our bodies when there's intense feelings, intense reactions to something, a lot of hormones get pumped through, including cortisol, and so it can feel very exhilarating. And we can have attachments to ideas of things without actual reciprocity of that connection, reciprocation of that, and it's like, then I think about how this ties in with fantasy and you know, a crush. super fun. Like we're not, I think, I wanna be really clear, we are not running by a script today. And so I think there's these pieces when we, it's fun. It's interesting and fun to talk about this topic because it's not like black and white. We're not saying queer longing is good or bad or healthier, unhealthy it's just a dynamic that we're exploring. Like what are the other pieces to it? I think with fantasy, I think so the plus side of queer longing is that, you know, that old saying distance makes the distance makes the heart grow fonder. And I think that there is, and Esther per talk about it, very cis hetero, mono it, but it does talk about man in captivity of this balance in a relationship dynamic or romantic and sexual relationship.
This tension of wanting security but also novelty. And when we're in queer longing, that really keeps some of that NRE, that new relationship energy going for like an extended period of time.
Keely: But you're also in your body, you're getting lots of jolts of like cortisol and epi- epinephrine, and different hormones that are keeping you escalated.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: And that feels, you know, so good. it gives your brain this almost high And then it can dip really low, you know, cuz also think like, oh, I missed the person. And, you know, oh, well, will we ever meet again? , will this relationship ever happen?
It keeps that going. and it's almost like I'd be interested, I don't know if you can, my brain wants to see what happens to the brain with these long elongate. It's like never ending NRE new relationship energy.
Melisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Keely: But you never reach that stability. And when we talk about things like feeling calm energy together or, co-regulating like some of these long-term relationship feelings and connection ,things that keep us going. The queer longing doesn't ever get you there. We're in a constant state of queer longing.
Melisa: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And like you said, I like to be careful of promoting any one idea as being the right way, . but to that point, I think that's why when we can use some form of bound-, I was gonna say restraint. And then my mind went to a very different place. That's a, that's a, that's my longing happening right there.
Keely: Oh, we're gonna episode very soon. Just not yet.
Melisa: Of course that's the connection I made. But when we can use,some self-restraint, when we can pace ourselves in relationships, that's a way to use that queer longing and like work with it and use that NRE and keep it going.
Long-distance relationships can sometimes be really great for that, you know, because you have these periods of time where you're not in physical space together, so you're connecting in other ways and then you come back together and it's like, holy crap. It's like the first time I've been with you, you know? And just pacing yourself in general. I think, like you said, keeping that longing going in a healthy way, we need that distance to be able to come back together. .
Keely: Well, and it's just kind of, I mean, on the one hand it's so, it can be so fun.
Like from afar and that fantasy piece we do build, especially if the longing, like, let's talk about the dynamic of this, the queer person and the straight person, you know you have that cuz you can be hanging out all the time like you're wanting. As a queer person, you're like wanting more from the dynamic and all the tension of like, oh, what did that look mean? what did they mean? When they texted me that, oh, they gave me this extra long hug. Was it just a friend hug or did it have other meaning to it? Like all of the questioning and, and, and that kind of like building sexual tension is, let's just say, it could feel really good and it feels good until it doesn't.
Melisa: Like, until it gets in the way of being present with the relationship as it is
Keely: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also like a clarity of, can we, I think what's often missing in the queer longing is having honest communication. And like in this queer straight dynamic. It's like, as a queer person, it doesn't usually feel safe to actually ask the person like, are you actually interested in me? Hey, you're straight. But are you attracted to me? Do you sometimes wanna kiss me?
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. Is this, is this, what is this? Is this friendship? Is this more, is there something here.
Melisa: Am I picking up on something?
Keely: Yeah. And how subconsciously a straight person can actually be, getting their needs met of this like great attention but not having to commit or getting to have the, that whatever dynamic, having that without the depth of vulnerability it would take to move it beyond.
Melisa: Right. Right.
Keely: To be sexual, romantic.
Melisa: Yeah. And I don't wanna, I'm gonna say something, but I don't wanna say that this is always the case, but we have named this concept before that like, it feels good to be wanted and so
Melisa: Even straight people can perha- I, I, I'm saying perhaps cuz I'm not a straight person. I thought I was, so that's a different story but like even street people perhaps might be able to get something out of like a queer person, like longing for them. Like, no, I don't wanna like be in a relationship or have sex with you, but it feels good to be wanted.
Like, you know, like, tell me how great I look you. Like I said, I realize, I'm assuming that I thought I was a straight person in that scenario. Turns out I actually really did wanna sleep with them.
Keely: I mean, there's that other, there's that other storyline as well, and
Melisa: I'm the person who makes everyone keep trying cuz they're like, I know some of you aren't really straight
I was not.
Keely: Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I mean, us queer people we're fucking awesome. Who wouldn't want our attention? Like hell. Yeah. So it makes more sense and like why, of course, a straight, why wouldn't a straight woman want attention from a queer person if they're only dating cis, straight hetero, monogamous men? Like let's be real.
Keely: Like not gonna sit here and start shit talking cismen, but like, I understand straight women why you would want my attention .
Melisa: Yeah. You know, and I've heard mixed reviews for people who are cis males, even cis het males. I've heard, I mean, I think we know, that there are some people who would react really negatively to having attention from a gay male, right? There's people who would get very homophobic and very scary. However, I also do know, cuz I am friends with some of these people, I know people who are cis het uh, males who, when a gay guy hits on them, they're like, Hey, dude, like, I'm so, that's not my thing, but like, you're great. Thanks. You know, like, so it, it can go both ways.
Keely: Oh yeah, for sure. And the idea of act, getting that attention, and I think the difference is like, it's one thing when you are hitting on someone randomly. I mean, that's different than the, developing an attachment and a relationship.
Keely: And having that day in and day out. I mean, I think back, I mean that's my high school experience was all of this. I didn't, but I didn't understand it until I was older. like back, and I call her my secret girlfriend, and I think I've said this before in an episode. I don't know if she would say that about me. Well, hopefully she wouldn't say that. She knows my, if she knows my gender now, but back then, you know, if she identified me as this hidden person like what was going on in her brain.
Keely: But I know for me it was like, years of queer longing that manifested into definite physical connection. Yeah. But then, oh, it backfired on me. Hardcore. Hardcore.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: And so that's the downside, or that's the other side of the coin is when we're in these dynamics as queer people, I mean, often it can eventually, be hurtful.
Melisa: Yeah. I mean, you said that the fantasy can be fun and it can, and it's like those what ifs and dreaming into that, you know? And, if that is not based in the reality of the relationship, it can really get in the way and it can really harm people because you're, you know, you're creating a relationship that doesn't exist and you're not inviting the other person into it authentically.
Keely: And this queer longing. I feel like we're starting with this queer longing dynamic and we've also talked about other queer longing, longing dynamic.
Keely: This particular queer longing dynamic. When I speak with older queer folks who have been out longer, the, it seems like, this narrative happens more in earlier years of being out.
Keely: And that I often hear now being 42 and talking to people in their late thirties, forties, and fifties and beyond sixties like that, they don't find themselves in those situations as much because they are at a place where, oh, I know that I can have a relationship that's reciprocal.
Melisa: Yeah, totally. And I could just name, I mean, not, not to speak for everyone, but I think with more time and practice comes more comfort in naming things and not just sitting and waiting and wondering for years like we may have done in grade school or high school, you know.
Keely: Oh yeah, for sure. Even like early college.
Melisa: Totally. Yeah. You know, it's funny, this is kind of an aside, but it just came to me as you were talking about your experience. when I was in high school, I had a best friend and it was a, you know, a cis female best friend and like very close to the point where people did ask questions, and like very physically close, like holding hands, linking arms, like spent all the time together.
But what's so funny is in hindsight, I really truly never did have a crush on her. I did have a crush on another person, another girl. And that's how I knew. But it's funny cuz in hindsight I'm like, that was like a, that for me, that was like a platonic relationship, right? Like I would've just moved in and had that person be my platonic life partner.
Oh, my best friend, right? Even though anyway. So there wasn't longing in that one, but there was longing in my, you know, Monica, in my major religions class. She was hot.
Keely: And then yes, there's the dynamic of the queer platonic relationship.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: Um, I think, yeah, for me, the longing and now I can see, I mean, I've definitely looked her up on Facebook and married with four.
Keely: Which doesn't, you can be married to a man and still, you know, it doesn't mean she's straight, but yeah, she's living a very cis hetero life and nowhere is there anything about queerness and, you know, it's very confusing. So that's the piece, like I just, and I know we can explore more this is, the straight queer dynamic. Then, you know, beyond that, when there's, when the two people are both queer, there's still like this place. That's interesting. Like when we look at whether it's situations of long distance or, I don't know. I think there's an element of queer longing when we look at relationships and people are monogamous sexually and romantically, but then you have like this other person that you are very close to. and like where is the line of cheating or not cheating? I don't know. I mean, this is like debate. I feel like this happens in couples counseling all the time. It's like, oh, emotional cheating. There's, but I think the, there is a piece of queer longing that plays into other dynamics. when you're, and I think the thing we were just talking about a little bit ago around that chemical reaction, our bodies, the NRE new relationship energy, like that can come out in all different types of relationships.
Keely: And there's this longing that comes into play when you are monogamous and in a relationship.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we've talked a lot about, you know, kind of, I think maybe our bias or our stance around even looking at monogamous relationships through the nonmonogamy kind of, view or lens. And if you are in a monogamous relationship that's especially isolated or siloed off, that's gonna increase that queer longing.
And I'm thinking especially of community and chosen family, like we have longing because we wanna be seen as authentically ourselves. You know, we want to be in relationship in the way we've seen cis het people be in relationship and you know, whatever we've seen media-wise. So, yeah, if you are not especially connected as a monogamous couple to other people, not even just like friends or best friends to hang out with, but like other groups, you know, do you how, like what's your network of humans like? Because if you're lacking in those connections, that's going to impact the longing. It's gonna impact your relationship.
Keely: Yeah. Well, and then you have just the long distance relationships where all of that longing of wanting to be with the person and then you see them for this intense amount of time, and then you're gone.
And I mean, I've been in that dynamic too, the long distance where I see them every two or three weeks for this long weekend and the relationship is just like, oh my gosh. Yeah. And then you move to the same town. And how does that change? .
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah.
Keely: And I'd be curious, I mean for, I think for future discussions, not for today, but a future discussion would be interesting to hear more about how this idea of queer longing plays into NRE. , but also plays into how we develop. Longer term relationships with somebody.
Melisa: Yeah. Yeah and along with that, and like you're saying, because it's a broad topic, I think there's so much more we could say, and will say, but, and we started with this piece, but getting even more clear on is there a longing ingrained us for the normative culture?
Because that's what we've been taught is safe and that's how we've been taught things are gonna be happy. That's kind of what I was talking about with my check-in today. Longing for the hierarchy. Even though intellectually, values wise, I do not want the hierarchy. My bones are still like, oh, I wanna marry that person.
And I'm like, wait, pause, pause.
We have been down that road. We know what that means like, wait, wait, wait. And that's just an impulse that's coming out of that longing for the structure that I was taught that means I can be satisfied in my relationships, right?
Keely: And does that longing, does being so used to that feeling of longing, keep us as queer folks away from these relationships that ultimately we want?
Melisa: Right? And that would really serve us. We just don't know it cuz we haven't seen it and felt it yet.
Keely: Much more to say. I think that's a good place to pause and transition. But yeah, this idea of queer longing. Oh my heart's a flutter.
Melisa: I'm wondering how many listeners right now are like, thanks. Now I'm really in tune with my longing. Awesome.
Keely: Damn you.
Keely: Well, queer Joy. Now you get to hear about Queer Joy.
Keely: Moving from the queer longing. oh my gosh. Melisa, I can you, I think I, I think I have actually I'll-
Melisa: Do you have queer Joy? I'm, I'm, I have joy. I mean, I'm queer, but what specifically
Keely: I think, well, I would say my queer joy is because this isn't, this is adding on for my check-in, but the queer joy piece I think for me was having, so first off I'm gonna say that I am very blessed and in a place of gratitude I own my home in Portland, Oregon. And recently my roommate moved out and I, find myself in a place I've never not had a roommate. And so we'll see. I'll probably eventually get a roommate again, but right now I get to share. I have this beautiful home with my two kids. And so with after this brunch, there was a whole situation and the two people found themselves. One of the person was visiting from a different city and so they asked if they could stay here for the night. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like how fucking queer and poly is that a former, you know, this person that I dated and met on Tinder, now the two of them, the person in their primary are like staying the night at my house.
Keely: And, they have this cute dog and my youngest child has a dog, and so the two dogs are like playing and we're like sitting on the, I'm looking over, have a couch right now. We're all sitting on the couch watching like a glow up thing on Netflix and the dogs are just playing together. And then, yeah, they got to, they slept in my spare room.
It was just beautiful and for me, Having that experience felt so healing and the potential of healing and other dynamics that maybe don't feel as healed in my world, but also for me, there is something really beautiful because of the time that I was brought up and how my house was to be able to have a home and that I share with other queer people.
It's just more than I can even put words to of how much that means to me to be able to have that true sense of community and just get to share my space. Like I am super, like gra grateful and so I wanna share it. And so getting to share that was a definite queer joy.
Melisa: That's amazing. Oh, community. And, um, that's all good.
Oh wow. My queer joy. I mean, like I said, I'm doing well. There's just not been a ton of like super, I don't know. Maybe I need to rethink how I think about queer joy. I'm like, it has to be exciting. No. We all know I like to sit at home with my plants and cats. Um, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll name this. I did not expect a name.
This is one of those like, I guess I'm feeling comfortable this morning. Uh, without being super specific, I have entered into a new dynamic within one of my relationships, specifically in our sexual connection. So more of a new kink dynamic that has been named and talked about and hinted at for a long time, but like kind of like more officially entered into that dynamic and it's fucking great.
It's so good. It's so good and like, speaking of longing, it makes me excited because what I have, experienced in relationships before. Not every relationship, but many is that NRE and sexual excitement. And we all like, well, we don't all know, but if you have only listened to this episode, I'm very demisexual.
And so I don't experience sexual attraction right away. And NRE actually can help. with that when I feel emotionally comfortable with somebody. But then when that NRE goes, that's like one other piece of, that's one other accelerator that's gone for me, which makes it difficult. having a kink dynamic in different roles that don't have to be present every time we have sex.
But sometimes it's so cool for me. I'm like, so you mean when we're like in an argument? I might still be able to flip into this role and like have this enjoyable experience with you. You know, like it's just, it feels like a new avenue and it feels like a way to promote ongoing growth and exploration, which is our theme this year on the podcast. Um,
Melisa: And it's fucking hot, so I'm happy .
Keely: Hey, that's so rad.
Melisa: Yeah. That's my queer joy for sure.
Keely: All right, well, things coming up for us. Well, on that note of kink, we do have our kink and BDSM workshop for therapists coming up in May. Check out our website and Eventbrite, and in April we have Lucy joining us, and I know we've already been promoting that, but we'll keep promoting that.
So check out, we have the information. For both workshops on our website. We also have, both of them have, are in Eventbrite. If you wanna order tickets and call up, if you wanna share your queer joy with us, you know how to find us. Instagram, Facebook, phone number. Hope you all have a queer and joyful week.
Thanks for listening to queer relationships, queer joy. A podcast by the Connective Therapy Collective. Hosted by Keely C. Helmick Melissa DeSegiurant with audio edited by me and Ley Supapo Bernido. I'm your producer, Cardinal marking. Inter music is by bad snacks. If this episode made you smile or think, tell us about it. If you hated it.
Tell us about that. Review us on iTunes or Spotify, or send us an email at media at Connective Therapy. Collective dot com. For more queer joy, visit our Instagram at queer relationships, queer joy, or our website www dot Connective Therapy. Collective dot com. Love ya. Bye.