The Queer Joy Podcast; two relationship therapists exploring what it looks like to see joy in queer relationships.
In this episode we discuss finding friends on dating apps, being ready for love after a 10 year marriage, demisexuality, and (of course) the Relationship Hierarchy and how to navigate it.
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TRANSCRIPT
Melisa: Well, the one feels personal, but I'll name it. As I said before, I'm solo, poly. I was divorced a year ago from a ten year relationship, so I've definitely been like treading lightly in my dating situations, but I had this realization, I also identify as demisexual and for me, sexual pleasure really comes in a committed, loving relationship. And I had the realization I'm like totally ready to fall in love again. Um, Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Queer Relationships Queer Joy. Keely: I'm one of the hosts, Keeley C Helmick. Melisa: I'm your other host, Melisa De Seguirant. Keely: So we thought we started just, I wanted some catch-up. a check-in check-in. Cause there are some things that revealed the other episode and this should, this should be playing after that episode. So I want to hear more. Spill the tea. I put myself on the spot by saying you're ready to find love. Melisa: Ready? Yeah. It's it's interesting. It was interesting for me to say that in the moment I hadn't planned on that is like my queer joy and then it just kind of came out. Keely: Well, those are the best, when you don't pre-plan it. Melisa: right. Exactly. Yeah. And it's, it's interesting. I think also to say that in the context of, I have a loving relationship in my life, I've been in connection and relationship to people. So not single in the monogamous way. Yeah. I've been doing this solo poly thing. So, I guess what I mean by that is I am partially just through the connections I've made with folks really reaffirmed in my Demi sexual-ness. And for me, I used that word, but I always ask people like what that means to them, because it changes from person to person. Keely: Well, Melissa, what does demisexual mean to you? Melisa: For me, it means that I experienced sexual pleasure and desire and connection. Emotional emotionally connected relationships. It's not so much that I just have to get to know somebody emotionally before the desire can form, but it has to do that is one of the factors also has to do with the emotional attunement in the moment. Keely: Oh, that's a good one. Have we talked about emotional attunement yet? I don't think we have. Okay. I want you to finish your story. And then for listeners, we're going to go back to this emotional entunement and that'll go to our broad topic today of like relationships in general. So, yeah, Melisa: yeah, yeah. So, you know, all that to say, I've, I've met some lovely people in the last year that I have had some sexual connections with. And for me, I'm just not a person who can get a lot of pleasure from like having sex with friends. Oh yeah. I just it's. It's. Nice when it's happening. And then it's sort of like out of sight, out of mind, like I could take it or leave it when I'm not thinking about, I'm usually not thinking about it. Okay. So what I'm ready for is a connection where there is romance and there is more love as a potential. Yeah. Without jumping on the relationship escalator. So it's a tricky dance that I am playing here. Okay. Keely: So this makes me think of something actually that I was asking and listeners, please write in about your comments, because I don't know if this is a generational thing or just being, you know, non-monogamy, monogamy, monogamish, whatever. When you're talking about finding love and you're open to this, and I love that. What is your opinion of dating apps? Where is dating apps for dating? Is it for finding friends? Does it make it more confusing or more clear when you can use dating apps to find friends? Yeah. What's your take on this? Well, I mean, thank God for dating apps to find friends because we're in a pandemic. I don't know how else I would meet people. I moved to Portland by myself, you know? So aside from like colleagues, like, who else am I going to be friends? I've met every one of my friends on a dating app and most of them have started. Well, not every one of my friends here in Portland, not in my whole life. Most of them had started with curiosity about like, let's see where it goes. And I, you know, I mean, it's good practice and being upfront about where your feelings are and be like, yeah, I'm feeling friend vibes here. Yeah. So just so that makes the communication. What you're saying is that makes the communication easier because you already set up the dynamic that this may just be friendship. This may not be any kind of romantic Melisa: or sexual thing. Yeah. Right, right. Keely: So then my question is, and this is just something coming up in a conversation, but it's like, okay, if a dating app is for friends as well, and this is more, I think, from monogamous folks and non-monogamous folks, when do you get off the app or do you get off the app when you are in a romantic situation? Melisa: Yeah. Yeah. When do you see for me? It's. Just staying on the app is hard enough. So I get off the app like every other day, for other reasons, Keely: it's the same worse than like taking off your Facebook. Melisa: Yeah. It's the same with Facebook or Instagram. I just and part of that is, you know, connections and relationships, friendship. Otherwise it's important to me, but it's not the whole thing. It's not all of my life. It's the relationship with self that I'm wanting to keep nurturing as I am connecting with others, I'm still grappling with that whole thing in connection also being with yourself. So yeah, I think, I mean, my instinct would be get on the apps when I'm not connecting with people, whether that's a friendship or a romantic connection. Keely: Okay. So, so the idea, what you're saying is when people are on the apps, that's for connection in whatever way. Melisa: Yeah. I mean, and people will argue with me on that Keely: and yeah that's why I want to talk about like Melisa: what the need for apps are. I'm a big fan of being, and I know it's different depending on what app you're talking about and how much room they give you. But I'm a big fan of being very transparent in what you're looking for. Yes, that is true too. So I like a profile that's like, I'm only here for friends and if I see that profile and like, Ooh, I don't think we'd be friends, then I'm just going to click away! So here's Keely: the hard thing. And this is like monogamy versus non-monogamy. So I'm going to take the monogamy stance for a minute. Don't judge me, anyone out there, but it's like, In the past, because I have been in monogamous relationships very recently actually. And it almost seemed like cheating being on a dating app because in my mind I get this maybe a generational thing cause I'm 41, but I had so purely quotation marks for those who can't see my hands had looked at dating apps as for dating. So then what. Folks that I, a person that I was dating, then when I switched from non-monogamy to monogamous with them, I pissed that they were still on the dating app. And for me it was this automatic, like, okay, we decided to close up the relationship. So I'm off all dating apps. And maybe it's also a privilege because I do have a lot of friends because I was in the area forever. And so maybe that's part of my privilege .. But that's how I see it. And, and it actually became an issue because that's how people cheat. That's how people cheat because they are saying so again, this is my, my understanding, my mindset, my experience is someone says, oh yeah, just, just goin on the apps for friends and actually. That's how they end up cheating. And then of course we can, I'm not going to dive too much into this. We can also say that even if they weren't on the app, they can still find somebody and still cheat and whatever. Why can't we just have an actual, honest conversation and be non-monogamous again, whatever the place may be. But anyways, so that's so, so you're defending, or you're saying yes, dating apps. You're on team dating apps are for friends and all relationships. Melisa: I am. And I mean, that really does dictate honest communication though. Keely: Yes. No matter what. Yeah, because we all know, even if you're in a non-monogamous relationship, there's still can be cheating and lying. Right. So we're not equating monogamy with only cheating Melisa: in a monogamous framework too. I mean, one could find a way to go meet people otherwise and still. The wrong intentions. I was like, oh yeah, I'm just going to the bar to meet friends. And like, oh, I went home with someone. Keely: Totally. Don't blame don't blame the app. It's only the messenger. It's the people using the app. Well, I'm willing, I'm going to sit with this some more. And because I'm solo now, and have committed and still remain committed to not be on the app till 2022. As I prepare to go back on the apps, it is legitimate for me to think about all the ways that the apps could be used. And keep an open mind. And please. Messages with your thoughts? Tell us if your team Melissa or team Keely what you think about all this, or you don't agree with either of us and have your own opinion? Melisa: One also, I would be so interested in hearing what the differences for different like profiles. Like of course I'm on the apps as a bisexual person, like, oh yeah. Primarialy for same gender relationships. And it's very clear that I'm non-monogamous. So the percentage, perhaps the percentage of non-monogamous folks on the apps are more likely or willing to be on there for friends as well versus monogamous people. I don't really know because I'm not interacting with monogamous profiles. That's why it makes sense. Keely: Well, and this leads to so many conversations today. This really does intro us to talking about all types of relationships and how we navigate those. So regardless of whether we find friends on a dating app or whatever means we do is especially in these busy times, I think we talk a lot about how to navigate and build upon this thing of, like, if we're saying the relationship with self is the most important. What are the guidelines or like tips for navigating sharing our energy with all relationships. Melisa: Right. And I think we've talked about before not sharing in necessarily a hierarchical model where romantic partners, significant others become prioritized over relationship with self or platonic relationships with friends.. Keely: So then how do you do that? How are we Melisa: scheduling? I have a literal, like binder, the binder. Well, not a binder, but a like a paper schedule. I can't do it on the Keely: phone yet. You can't do the Gmail? Melisa: I mean, I'm capable of doing it, but it doesn't do anything for me in terms of relieving my brain of the information. Okay. So it's not like Keely: you friend them on Facebook, you friend them on instagram, and then you share, ad share calendar. Melisa: So I've done that. I've done that with partners in the past. Keely: What part of the relationship, what does it mean when you add them to your calendar? Melisa: Ooh, yeah, I've done that in the past. When I was in a like a closed loop polyamorous situation where I had a set, you know, I had two set partners. I wasn't dating anyone else. And my partners have partners. So we were scheduling. We had, we had to have some sort of a shared calendar. No, but I have personally, like for my own brain, I have a calendar of like my life. That's like, when am I working? And which nights am I taking off for myself? And which nights am I going to see things with friends? So that I know, like I have to visually see. Where my time is being put. Keely: Yeah. So I think, you know, I often say that if it's not in the schedule and our in the way that we do life in most, a lot of us, not everyone in United States, we're all so scheduled that if it's not on the calendar, like what we put in the calendar is, what's important. Yeah. That's just how we have worked this out in our society. So. Do you put yourself in your calendar? Totally do. So if you're looking at your calendar, Put yourself first. Melisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And know your stamina because mine changes season to season, or depending on how busy work is like right now, I've told people I'm kind of like operating in this mode where I could spend one weekend day doing a bunch of social things and the next day needs to be completely myself. I need that reset time. But that might not be true during like summer was different when I had more energy and there was more lights. Yeah. Keely: Well, and so, so we got the scheduling and then I think with the scheduling comes communication. Yeah. Because, as you said, sitting here talking, I'm thinking about what clients are coming up for in the, basically in the holiday season, but we're the holidays, whatever that means for anybody, there is a frantic energy around us and there's some cultural norms whether or not we participate in them. And so navigating these relationships and navigating ourselves. Is so much more important at during the busy times then when we're all just chilling and lazing around on a sunny summer Melisa: day. Yeah. Well, and there can be conflict around where am I supposed to put my time at the holidays? Yes. And we've talked about family expectations, which is that's one side of it. And also do friends, like get the boot around holidays. If we're going to romantic, are we prioritizing other relationships over friendship? Keely: Yeah. And I think that there's a lot to be said. I talked to my monogamous friends a lot about what does it look like to have the, the lens of non-monogamy in a monogamous relationship? Because even using the word monogamous. It's like that is assumed, we're assuming it's sexual and romantic monogamy and we're forgetting all of the other types of relationships. There's like no space for it. Yeah. Yeah. And so we already said what calendars, scheduling ourselves, scheduling our friends. Scheduling family scheduling all different types of connections. I mean, I think about now that we're opening up parts of the world, again, people want connection all sorts of ways. I mean, like y'all did a little. Thing, but yeah, and colleagues, yeah. It connects you with colleagues. Yeah. Yeah. It's its Melisa: own category for sure. And even like, even re this is a specialty been missing with COVID, but the random connections with like folks that you meet being out in the world, like those spontaneous conversations. That like bring me so much energy and so much joy and has really been missing, you know? So I think even making time for those connections, like what can, when can I be out in the world and like available to be connected with, Keely: and it has space to do it. Yeah. It has space in your schedule space in your. Being energy. I mean, energy to do that. I mean, isn't energy, our most valuable asset, our most valuable resource. So, and I think that's especially, you know, we're focused, obviously our podcasts on queer folks and our community. And so navigating that in spaces and having that availability to have more connection. We never know when that connection is going to come, because we don't know if we're, if I'm outgoing, if I'm just hanging out at a coffee shop or hanging out somewhere, I don't know. If there's any other queer people or not. Yeah. I would be ready if I actually meet another queer Melisa: person, I guess I have the energy and time to put space into it. And then you're choosing your venue. You're like, okay, where can I best be situated Keely: to meet like-minded people? So I'm so if someone, so going back to this idea of like the monogamous couples monogamous folks using strategies and looking at their relationships in the way that a non-monogamous person, this is the value of having well, getting off the relationship escalator, and then this hierarchy of. why romantic sexual relationship is the most important thing. Yeah, Melisa: it makes me think of like really managing NRE because oftentimes at least when I've been talking to clients about it recently, what happens is there's so much new relationship energy. There's so much excitement. There's so much wanting to be connected, wanting to be attuned, and it can be this like, Shifts in time of like spending a lot of time with somebody, which may be natural when you're feeling all those feelings and getting to know someone, but then coming out of that into maybe a more balanced, like, okay, wait, I do have friends. And I don't know, I don't want to propose like, well, you can't hang out with like the new person as much in the beginning, but just being mindful of. Like, you know, and even if that's communicating to friends, like NRE I'm going to be MIA for like three weeks. for me, like, at least that would be verbalized. And mostly, I mean, I'm thinking my friend, so it'd be like, you'd go get it, you know? But that's, that's a little bit different than I think in the past, I'm definitely the person who just like fell off. Yeah. You know, and then never came back from that. Keely: Or all of a sudden come back months later when the person broken up with aa person. Melisa: Right? Yeah. Yeah. And then how does that feel for a friend to like, oh, okay. Now when it's convenient, you are my friend and I, Keely: and I think it's interesting how much we normalize that. And, you know, we have the whole verbiage of like U-Hauling and all these. Thoughts in the queer community and U-Hauling specifically towards lesbians, but it could happen to other queer folks as well. But how we navigate that, like that acceptance, but also being like, Hey, what does the boundary look like to be like, I'm still important in someone's life. And I want to be, have compersion and be happy for them, but also. How I have or anyone, you know, I value as a friend. And even if it's just a one hour coffee, hang out, zoom, meet up, go on a walk. And I think it's interesting because we're not going to change anybody's mind or not necessarily. I don't know. Let us know if we change your mind. Maybe we do, but. There's still this idea, very ingrained in our culture. Monogamy, you do drop other people. Yeah, yeah. Or this, this person is your most important versus right. But your whole being. Your person Melisa: comes this ownership thing and this bubble and that's where the emeshment comes in. That's where codependency starts to, you know, grow. It can be very isolating. I don't know that it has to be that way, but I think that's often what people experience. I certainly did. And pretty much all my monogamous relationships. And yeah, the idea of like your person, like, wouldn't it be wonderful to have more like, and I'm not saying everyone has to be non-monogamous Keely: but like, what if even as a Melisa: monogamous person, like what if there were more than one? You know, you've got your friends, you've got your family, you've got whoever you have. Versus like I've got my one person and then the rest of the world. Keely: Well, and this can exist in queer dynamics. When we have our chosen family, we have our group and we prioritize who many people, or we prioritize that time with both our lover. And I thought it was great. In our, whatever episodes, when Gretchen was talking about or it was Gretchen's partner actually was talking about how she goes on trips. Yeah. They identified, they were in a monogamous sexual and romantic relationship. And she was saying, yeah, I go on trips with just my friends. So that's actually the demonstration of how people could be romantically and sexually monogamous. But. Still still have the lens of like balancing out. I don't know. The Libra in me is like, how do I balance things? How to keep things balance. Balance those emotions. And so navigating that. I want to go back to this attunement piece because I'm curious, like if we can talk a little bit about, okay, so we've fleshed out this idea of calandars and deepen communication and looking at things in a different way. And then I do want to mention those first, the NRE thing. Have you seen any research on it? I don't think I have. So what I've heard is that. NRE new relationship. Energy is based like being on cocaine to your brain. Doesn't surprise me. So the things that you're doing is as though you're high and you phase out of that, but I do think it's interesting to have a hold this space, like how you said that. Having this boundary around NRE being like I'm going to my NRE bubble, but I will come back for air, Melisa: right? Yes. This will not be forever. Keely: Even owning that and recognizing that within yourself. I think that's the layer of communication. And self attunement and self recognization that communicated that way can add layers to keeping these connections. Yeah, definitely Melisa: communication. It's going to keep coming up. I think every episode is like this, but it's, it's what I learned there. Yeah. You know what I learned the most from being a therapist. Evedentially so. Yes verbally. And non-verbally maybe that's where the attuned comes in it's the non-verbal Keely: well, what do you mean attunement? What are you saying when we say that? Yeah, Melisa: I, you know, it doesn't feel too unlike when we talked about co-regulation yes. It feels similar. Which I was the one who was like, I don't know if I believe in co-regulation now, here I am. Referencing it again. But it's really, it's like emotionally energetically, somebody being able to track and like blend with where I'm at and vice versa. Me too. So it's, I mean, I don't know if I have enough. Great. It feels like it's, I'm talking about something in the ethers and it feels that way, you know, to some extent there's not like a recipe I can write for how somebody can perfectly emotionally attune to me. But. I guess part of how I define it is really knowing what it feels like when somebody is not attuned. Keely: Yeah. I've heard that. I mean, I think about that another way that I think about it is, and I tell clients, this is connection is vulnerability plus being present. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're talking about connection. We're talking about emotional regulation, emotional connection attunement. And so those are the pieces. And you're saying this I'm acting and even just how you said that, you know, when it's not there. Yeah. I'm also thinking about this topic we're talking about. And what does it mean to figure out that there are pieces that you actually, people in your life that you give less time energy to like isn't part of navigating how we organize our time and use our time and use our energy for connection of like, there's also, sometimes they figure out that people aren't, you don't want to Melisa: keep her. Right. And we need to pull back or we need to shift the relationship. Yeah. This could be scary conversations to have. And there's no way around that. Like, it is, it is important to, well, I guess the way that I, if there's the guilt that comes up for people, cause that's what. Stuff. And from my clients, it's like, well, I'd, if I feel bad or guilty, or even if it's someone, somebody started dating and you realize, oh, we're more like friends, you know, there's all this like negativity around like friends zoning someone. Keely: But again, that's a Melisa: hierarchy, right? Exactly. They're demoted. They're demoted. Keely: Like, oh, you friendzoned someone. You gave them, you know, the backseat Melisa: or right. When truly it's. I mean, I, if somebody is interested in finding romantic connection and I know it's not, I'm not feeling that way. I'm doing them a service by letting them know where I'm at, so that we can develop the relationship and actually available for, and then go and find their needs, you know, with our one. There was a really good moment on it's the show love on the spectrum on Netflix season two, there was a moment where somebody goes through this. They have to, they have to friend zone someone. They have to like, you know, explain that, like, I really enjoyed hanging out with you and I want to be your friend and I'm not romantically interested. And it was just beautiful. That show, I think was just well done anyway. And the way that things are sort of simplified in, in some ways and in communication. The response was amazing. This person received this information, they went great. I'll be your friend. That's the kind of moment that I want to like take to clients and be like, what if we all have this response of like, great, you want to be my friend? Fantastic. You know, not this like, oh, Keely: well, okay. Well, yes. So getting away from the hierarchy, it not being. Like a punishment or this bad thing to be somebody's friend. Right. And I'm thinking even actually being solo right now, and I've been navigating different relationships and connections. And honestly, to reinforce what you just said, I have been looking at friendships and any situation of being like if this is someone I really want to keep as a friend, I'm not going to be doing, you're so important that I'm not going to pursue anything else with you. Yeah. Like our friendship is so important. So I almost go sometimes refer because I've been burned recently, obviously. And so looking at that in reverse. So I, I feel like I keep coming back to this friends with exes and it's so fascinating on the tail end of ending a romantic relationship with somebody. Where this there's this emphasis or this dynamic of like, well, we can't be friends. Yeah. Or my even more. So my new partner is not okay with it. Yeah. Are you friends for a while? But then they start dating somebody and. And I, it feels like this comes into play of this toxic. When we talk about toxic monogamy, that's the flavoring of it is like you don't you as an individual. I don't get to decide how. relationship with other people. Yeah. Yeah. Melisa: Right. Yeah. Gosh, it's, it's a good conversation. The whole friends with exes, and I've even thought about how, in some nonmonogamous perspective, does that change it like closure can be strange with non-monogamy in a way that with monogamy it's like, okay, we're not in a monogamous relationship. We're going to pursue that with somebody else. Yes. With nonmonogamy Keely: nominated. Melisa: I don't know, like anything's game , Keely: The queer world it's so small. Even in Portland, Oregon, it's so small. You're like I'm going to run into this person eventually. So how do I Melisa: want to, if you're not going to be friends with your ex then who are you gonna be friends with? Keely: Oh my God. Oh my goodness. Okay. So before we go into queer joy of the week, I want to highlight what we talked about today And we've said most of these before, but noticing being attuned with self, noticing ourselves first and noticing where we want to put our energy and look being specific about the use of our calendars so that we can navigate these relationships. All of our relationships, having really open communication. I liked the idea of deconstructing friend-zoning as a bad thing. And then also taking note of the changes of the dynamics within relationships. And as we always say, getting off the relationship escalator. Yeah, Melisa: yeah, yeah. Really just unpacking the way that we're, to me, all of this is about not habitually, just moving about the world, but moving intentionally. Keely: Yeah. Intentionally. Melisa: And being intentional about your connections with people and managing that. And Keely: being intentional, you need to be for a person to be intentional for me to be intentional, I need to be present and I need to practice that still. So I'm yes, as a mindfulness type person, just coming back to self, coming back to being present and present and intentional. So with that, I want to mix it up this week. Melisa: Give it a good, yeah. I'm like, yes, Keely: because I was planning my joy and I feel like there are so many queer joys this week! But there is a new queer spot open in Portland, Oregon, and it's called the Queen's head and it's in downtown Portland. Cute little space. And it was just being around a bunch of queer folks and. That's amazing. And it was so much fun and really want to support them. We are not getting sponsored by them. So just to let you know, we're not being sponsored by them. This is just me as a human saying this. It was so nice to be in the space, the person and seeing she was. So great about being like we need these queer spaces support us, support everybody, and it felt really supportive and useful and fun. And there was one performance in particular by Nick Lacey that was so thatrical and so much fun. And yeah, it was just like, theatrical is, it is a theater piece that really got me. So it's just really my queer joy is being in the queer space and just having fun, listening to music and listen to the drag show and all that. That sounds so much fun. They're open now you can go you have to show your vaccination card. Okay. Stay masked. So as, as quote, unquote, as safe as it can be in a queer setting, but it also didn't feel they had doors open. It didn't it wasn't over-packed yeah. I mean everyone, your own, you know, on your own discresion. I'm not saying, you know, I know some people still don't want to be around groups. I think they did a really good job trying to do that Melisa: Queer spaces. It's important, especially if you- if anyone like me has not been in a lot of queer spaces during this pandemic, like get yourself Keely: drag dow show. Yes. The other thing about this space is you can even just be. That's great. Yeah, they have a patio area. So if you want to check it out and don't want to be inside, you can be outside and check it out and support them. Get a drink. And they have non-alcoholic drinks too. I actually got mine for free. I was very happy. Like thank you for not charging me for this non alcoholic drink. So. That's Melisa: amazing good queer joy. Mine actually has to do kind of what we talked about today. I had a great balanced weekend. I was very social with friends on Saturday and got to catch up with some people that I hadn't seen in a while, which was really nice. And then Sunday kind of did my own solo thing. Meal prepping for the week, which is my new winter strategy, but abd also made a new friend on Tinder. So yeah, dating app my assumption is that it's a friendship kind of, like you said, I'm prioritizing friendships right now, kind of before anything else? But that it just really cool. It seems like somebody that I resonate with and that for any of you or anyone who heard like the earlier episodes, I'm like, I just swipe and I swipe and I swipe and nothing happens. Like that's still, that's my experience still, but there is Keely: hope when you say swipe, swipe swipe nothing happens. Do you mean there's no Melisa: matches. There's no matches. And I've said this before, but I really do better meeting people in person. Okay. So it's in the the come as you are language, the brakes and accelerators, there are a lot, I have a lot of brakes anyways. My brake system is intact and even more so on apps. There's so much that is an automatic, like, oh, I don't, I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. So, and unfortunately my bandwidth for socialization being, well, maybe it's being a therapist, I'm not gonna lie. Like we have a lot of deep conversations every week that the idea of going on multiple first dates also in a week, it's like, I can't, I can't, I can't, I don't want to hear somebody's story that Keely: much this week. Melisa: Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm very discerning on dating apps maybe to my, you know, But it is rare for me to swipe. Right. And when you don't swipe right. A lot, you don't get, not just a lot. That's kind Keely: of how it works. Okay. We're going to have to test these theories out in Melisa: January when I'm on. Watch me swiping. I'm going to like monitor maybe like. Keely: Why are you swiping left? Cause I have not allowed myself to be on dating apps. Oh. I help all my friends on their dating apps and I see what the pool looks like. Yeah. So is that, is that cheating on my non...? I'm not sure yet to be determined yet to be determined. Let us know what you think. Am I cheating by looking at my. And my friends apps, my queer friends, specifically straight friends, whatever, just to see what's out there is that addiction shit. All right. Well, that's enough for that for this week. Thank you all for listening and you know how to find us on Instagram. Can I say Connective Therapy Melisa: collective website? Keely: You have Melisa: anything out rate us, review us if, if you're comfortable to do so. We'd love to have some feedback about how this is all Keely: landing. Yeah. Give us all the feedback. So thanks for joining us this week, and I hope you all have a wonderful, Queer joyful week. Thanks for listening to queer relationships, queer joy, a podcast by the Connective Therapy Collective hosted by Keely C. Helmic and Melissa DeSegiurant. With audio edited and produced by me, Cardinal Marking. Music is by bad snacks, Otis McDonald, and OfShane. Sound effects from free sound. If this episode made you smile or think, tell us about it. If you hated it, tell us about that. Review us on iTunes or send us an email at info at Connective Therapy Collective dot com. For more queer joy, visit our website at www dot Connective Therapy collective dot com. Love you bye!