Ready to dive in the strategies and getting into more of the nitty-gritty with mental health & relationships? Hear it all on this episode of the Queer Joy Podcast; where two relationship therapists explore what it looks like to see joy in queer relationships.
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Keely: We have to constantly remind ourselves: no one is responsible for someone else's life. We are not responsible for another person's joy. We're not responsible for making them happy. We're not responsible for keeping them alive. But there's a lot of things we can be. We can, as partners, be supportive, be compassionate, bring joy, bring pleasure. But not just bring, but, like, participate in pleasure with the other person. It's just, we're not responsible for another human being. all right! Back again! Melisa: Welcome back to Queer Relationships. Queer Joy: Part 2 of the continuation of our conversation about mental health in queer relationships. Keely: Yeah, part two. And I realized, it feels a little heavy. I feel a little heavy right now. Usually we're talking about all these like super, like interesting, like, gooey happiness. Melisa: Also, we're like for listeners, we're recording part one and two back to back. So we're sitting in the heaviness. I would recommend listening to them separately. Keely: So if you didn't listen to the first episode of the first part of this discussion on relationships and mental health, I would definitely recommend listening to part one first. But if you didn't, just to get you up to speed, the first part we talked a little bit about definitions of anxiety and depression, and then how to start the conversation, when to start the conversation, how to talk about it. Some general things to think about and on this episode recording, we really wanted to focus on strategies and getting into more of the nitty-gritty when you're in the relationship situations. Melisa: Shall we do intros again just in case there's anyone who's skipping part one and wants to dive right into part two and doesn't know who we are? Keely: Always introductions. I am Keely C Helmick. I'm the owner of Connective Therapy Collective. I'm a queer, non-binary, white able-bodied person. I am solo poly and licensed professional counselor as well as a certified sex therapist. Melisa: And I'm Melisa DeSegiurant. I'm a licensed clinician at Connective Therapy Collective. I'm white, bisexual, polyamorous, gender fluid, mostly able-bodied, coming into physical recovery and also deal with anxiety in keeping with today's topic. Keely: Yeah. And so in honor of May being Mental Health Awareness, we are continuing our conversation around mental health and relationships. And I think I didn't mention this. Cause again, I, I have assumptions sometimes, but really wanting to recognize and validate that there is a high percentage of queer and trans folks with diagnosable mental health challenges, mental health illness. And I want to make sure and clarify that to normalize and also recognize how we differentiate being that when you're part of a system X, there's a systemic piece to it and we didn't go too much into it. But when we talk about anxiety and recognizing, oh, why do queer and trans folks have higher rates of anxiety than CIS hetero? Oh, maybe because there's some real fucking fear of walking down the street, sometimes just being yourself. Melisa: Yeah, absolutely. We talk about intersectionality a lot in mental health and this is one of those. I guess, times to bring it up because when you add on all of these pieces of identity, that may be shamed, may not be the norm or what society puts on its pedestal, you know, certainly like walking down the street as a queer person is different than walking down the street as a non-queer person. Similarly, if you're queer and you're black, that's a different experience. And if you're queer and you're white, right. All of these intersectionalities and the way that our systems are just still really toxic and harmful to a lot of people and oppressive... that can contribute to these anxiety levels, these depression levels and all of these other mental health afflictions that we experience. Keely: Yeah. And so I want to just really validate that and normalize that. And especially at being a person of color . You know, not having the same supports and having those things come up on a daily basis. Not just walking around, but at work and being a person of color, being a black trans woman, being a black trans man, being an Asian queer person. All of those different intersectionalities really affect our general mental health. And so we can't separate that. Melisa: Right. A thousand percent. And we're not going to be able to go into every single possible variants on how we might experience life, but you're absolutely right about that. And I've seen that in the pandemic. You know, I've seen especially ableism coming up a lot for my clients who are not able bodied. Right. And how that can really lead to depression, detachment, and anxiety for some folks. It's not always, you know, one or the other. But yeah, it's just important to recognize that there are, like you said, systemic reasons that some of these things exist. Keely: Yeah. And accessibility. Being a person who has never had to be in a wheelchair, I've been on crutches before, never experienced being in a wheelchair to get around and witnessing my father who had a stroke and cannot move on his own and is in a wheelchair and trying to get to be able to go anywhere... just transportation, like, I recognize the lack of awareness that I really had. I mean, we here at our office space, we've always made sure it's ADA, but to really see that firsthand, how challenging it is for people with different abilities or people that are in wheelchairs and accessibility. It's horrible. It is just, yeah. So adding all the, all these layers to it again. Yeah. We can't, we don't have the time to go into all these different intersections, but wanting to just validate representatives and be aware. Hi, it's Cardinal your friendly neighborhood. Spider-Man one thing I don't have to save the city from is, as you like. They're an eco-conscious body positive, queer, positive sex toy shop with something for everybody and every body find them online at as you like it. shop.com and use code CTC therapy. That's all one word at checkout for 10% off that CTC therapy at as you like it. shop.com catch you later. Keely: And so then we get in these relationships and we have these romantic relationships, these sexual relationships, nesting partners, whether we're monogamous or polyamorous, I will say, you know, monogamy assumed expectations. Monogamy can definitely put a bigger toll when we're talking about mental health, for sure. Melisa: Oh. Gosh. One of the dynamics that just came to mind, as you were talking about the intersectionality is the pitfall of comparing mental health afflictions to one's partner and like comparing in the way of like, well, your anxiety isn't as bad or my depression. Right. And like, and we do that with trauma too. And I'm unpacking this all the time. Right. Even the language I know in the mental health community. Now, we talk about like big T trauma versus little T. I mean, I understand the differentiation and let's not use that as a comparison and a way to either put our partners down or make ourselves feel more important. Let's support each other through what we're dealing with. Not compare and shame. Keely: Yeah. Yes, not compare. For sure. And I think when you are saying that, I'm thinking about if one takeaway when people are listening to this and getting a broader understanding and thinking about themselves and their own relationships, thinking about how do we hold compassion but still have our boundaries? How do we be supportive? Melisa: Right. Yeah. But some of it comes down to semantics and practice. I'm not going to lie because you can say like half the best scripted communication statement of like, wow, I can really see you're going through something. I want to be there for you. And I'm noticing I'm really tapped out. Like you can have all of this like empathetic stuff planned, but in the moment of delivery, if your nervous system is not in its window of tolerance, if you are not regulated, that could come out... at least if it's coming out of my mouth, it might be real bitchy. You know, like that can really, like I say, I can sit here and say it grounded when I'm calm. But in the heat of me feeling really like anxious about somebody else's emotion, essentially, just what happens. It can come out like, well, that's on you. You got to deal with that. And that that's a not very empathetic or supportive. That's a lso controlling, because what it's saying is my anxiety can't handle your emotion, so you're going to have to fix that. Keely: Yeah. And you're also getting into the dynamic of the difference: what is it like when there's a couple or a partnership or multiple partnerships where both people struggle, have challenges, and what happens when it triggers the other? Melisa: And that's a big one when I'm like, maybe do some couples work to talk about it, at least get like a, a session or two to be able to talk about how do our anxieties, or how does our depression, like, how did the things we deal with play off of one another and feed into one another. And how can we both recognize the pattern and get on each other's team about stopping the pattern versus being like on opposing sides. Keely: Yeah. And how do we take accountability for the things that we do while also having compassion for ourselves? Like both can be true. If one person is having an especially challenging week or a challenging day and their anxiety manifests in a way that is harmful to partner, how does a person sit with that and apologize or take accountability, but also be like- we're not talking about mental health being an excuse, but it's an opportunity to hold compassion for us. Melisa: Right. Yeah. Keely: But then you taking within that, then taking steps to manage that. Melisa: Yeah, it may look like after things go awry that you like have some accountability and realize what happened. You know, and, and go, okay. Wow. I think in that scenario, I was really letting my anxiety fuel me. That's where that language came from. Here's what I can do differently. It would be helpful if there are any asks, if you would do this for me, when you notice it, start to get this way, you know, but again, make that an ask, make that a dynamic conversation. It's not up to the other person to tiptoe around my anxiety, nor is it up to me to tiptoe around anyone else's stuff. Keely: Well, and this really came to a head, I think, during the pandemic when we were in these bubbles. And so when we're constantly saying, "well, have more support, have more support to have more support," and as we've discussed many times, and we'll continue to bring up that even within the dynamic of especially within a queer relationship and with queer folks, there's not always the same support within the family dynamic, and so those kind of natural support systems that we think about within a system isn't always available. Melisa: Right. Yeah. Even I'm thinking like, yeah, teletherapy has really been great for some folks and accessible, but for some of my clients being able to meet again in person has been a game changer because the way that their mental health works, especially if you're dealing with a lot of dissociation, sometimes the computer screen can really aggravate that. And so folks have not necessarily been getting the same mental health support as they would have had we not had a pandemic. Keely: So in this piece of taking accountability and shifting and noticing our own roles within interactions and thinking about our own mental health is what are the steps that a person can take individually to recognize "okay, my anxiety got the best of me and my window of tolerance is really low." Moving forward with that, not just taking accountability, but making amends or having that opportunity to heal from that. Because relationships, I mean, this is the positive part! Relationships can be such an opportunity for healing. We talk about it being triggering sometimes, but it's also an opportunity of healing. What is it like to have someone that sits in hold space? Melisa: Right. Yeah. And so that's where some of those repairs from the traumas we've experienced can happen. And I've definitely experienced that. And that's part of the reason I think I am particular about who I'm dating and like finding out, I said this in our part one, but like, I really like information. I want to know what you've been through, what you go through, how that impacts how you show up in a relationship. I want to tell you this same for me, because I've had different experiences, people coming into face with my anxiety and how that impacted them. And I've seen the people who could really respond to me in a way that deescalated me versus the responses that really just amp it up and make it like a thousand times worse. And again, that's not commentary on like, oh, you're doing my anxiety wrong. It's just the way that my anxiety triggers this other person, It may not be a right match. And I've experienced that. And I don't even want to say just anxiety. Like you've heard it from me on the podcast. I'm a pretty high vibration, high energy person. I have a lot of passion. I'm a Leo sun and an Aries moon. So like watch out. And I've seen this. I wasn't even feeling anxious, but I'll get really heated about topics and start like, no, and then seeding and I've had people on a date like quiet me and be like, Ooh, can you calm down? Can you, and again, that's nothing wrong with them. That's nothing wrong with me. But for me, it's like, oh, we're not a good match. If I can't be my full self, this isn't gonna work, and that's totally valid. I get to be big and loud and abrasive sometimes. And you know, it's not that every partner has to deal with that. But if someone is like not able to deal with any level of my energy. That's probably not the right batch. Keely: Totally. And that's another place where couples counseling can be really helpful is differentiating between those things. We can change how we're reacting to something, how we communicate something. There's certain things that can be changed. And guess what? There's certain things about us that are just who we are and, like you said, maybe it's not a good fit. Melisa: Totally, totally. And it's okay that it's not. We don't have to be the right fit for every person. Keely: And then there's another piece too can be acceptance and, you know, we have to decide, is it something that, that doesn't work for us or is it part of it's about acceptance? I will say, and this hasn't been about mental health, I'm a loud person. And there's been funny things about it and definitely I get shushed sometimes. And as I've gotten older, and more loving of myself, I'm like, okay, I'll be quiet in a library. I love libraries and I respect libraries, but you know what? I'm a loud person. And legit, that is not something I'm going to change about myself. Like, I can whisper. The joke is, one point there's this list of like loud people. It's like you have two volumes, either loud or whispering vibe with that. But at the end of the day, there's people that can love me and accept my loudness. There's people that enjoy my loudness and yeah, there's going to be humans in this world that it doesn't work for them. Melisa: Right? Yeah. And similarly, like, that's how I feel about my anxiety. Like if somebody is really off-put by the fact that I can get anxious about things, then the, you know, again, like you said, if they can accept it, that's one thing. But if, if they cannot, I would rather not be in that connection because what will happen is then I feel extra shame for my mental health issues that are not my fault. And we know that creating shame doesn't help. It actually makes it all worse, you know? And so that's where, yeah, I'm, I'm really okay with somebody being like, Ooh, This level of anxiety is just not for me. I'm not the right notch. Great. I would rather know that than have someone shame on me for an experience that I'm having. Keely: Well, and I think so we've talked about anxiety and now I'm thinking about depression and how that manifests, and one of the things I think that if we're not aware of somewhat depression or having depression, things like canceling last minute. Or wanting to leave something early, or not wanting to go out and be social. I mean, that could be depression or social anxiety, but- Melisa: Totally withdrawing. Keely: ...withdrawing and a partner personalizing it. Oh, you don't want to hang out with me anymore. You don't want to go to this event with me. You don't want to do this with me. Hmm. That's a common thing that I hear around depression and the way that you try to encourage somebody, you can encourage and be compassionate, but you can't force someone to just get out of their funk. Melisa: Right. That's what I see a lot of. Keely: Mood. Melisa: Right. People getting burned out, trying to like, well, let me, how do I make it better? How do I make it better? Sometimes we just need to sit with someone and their depression and be like, yeah, it kind of feels heavy today, doesn't it? Keely: Sometimes when I talk about non-monogamy, I really want to be clear that I'm not saying that non-monogamy is the best way because it's its own thing. Like, I'm not saying people should be monogamous or non-monogamous in a romantic relationship. I will say that recognizing that we can do things on our own and that we're not responsible for other people and that realizing, not controlling someone else, not controlling someone else's experience- I don't want to go into jealousy because that's not our topic today. But when I think about the experience of non-monogamy and knowing that I'm not going to control what other people do. I think that controlling aspects really pop up a lot in monogamy unknowingly. And especially if someone's struggling with mental health and having an episode, or, you know, sometimes we call it a depressive episode. We can't control another person. Right. We're not here to control another person's actions. We're not here to control who someone talks to or who someone doesn't talk to. That's not a boundary. That is not helpful. That is not what a relationship dynamic purpose is. Melisa: That is what I see though is, and I've definitely been guilty of that too. Trying to control somebody's mood so that I didn't have to sit in the discomfort because I am uncomfortable tolerating the emotional experience. Like we distressed tolerance is a concept of mental health. We talk about coping all the time and people thinking about coping, like, how do I feel good. Right. That's what we're after. I want to feel good again. And sometimes we don't and we have to tolerate those emotions too. And there can be boundaries in place with partners of like, okay, I've sat in depression land with you for a week. I need to get out and do something else with myself. It's totally fine. If you want to still sit here, cuddle up, cozy up, watch cartoons, whatever you're doing, I'm going to go for a run. I going to go for a hike. I got to go see a friend. Cause I got to lift my vibration. I'm not responsible for staying here with you forever and ever. That's also not helpful to you, but I'm going to accept where you are. You don't have to change. I have control over what I'm doing with my body and my energy. Keely: And we don't want it to hate that it does influence us because when we see a loved one suffering, having challenging times. Hmm, it does affect us. Yeah. Melisa: Yeah. And so many pieces can come into play with partners too. I've had experiences where like, if I always had high anxiety, a partner assumed like, oh shoot. Now we're not going to have sex. Right. Like, there are so many things where there's assumptions we make about what this does or doesn't mean and sometimes it can impact our connectedness with a partner. And so it's, it's tough. It's like, everyone's valid, but how do we honor what each other are going through in a way that is empathetic? That's not controlling? That's not shaming? Keely: Yeah. And, and all of these things, even double, triple when we're living with somebody, right? Melisa: Yeah. And one of the pieces, trigger warning for this part of the conversation, but that we had talked about and haven't voiced yet here is when you have a partner who is suicidal. Yeah, how that impacts the relationship. Yeah. That's a big one. And especially when we talk about not having one person to lean on for support, I have seen that dynamic where there's just one person. I've been in that dynamic personally as well, and it's, that's a lot it's really, really heavy for one person to carry. Keely: For sure. And one of the things I had them do as a couple when a person is suicidal, and I mean, I've used it multiple times, sometimes intentionally, but I'm thinking about, you know, when one person identifies suicidality and the other person feels responsible, the person who isn't suicidal helps partner make a list of other people to call sometimes. When the partner feels like they're the only one keeping this other person alive, it destroys the relationship along with the individual. Melisa: Absolutely. Yeah. There's no room for connectedness. The way we talk about, you know, the beginning stages of building relationship, but all this communication in that scenario, there is no longer the ability to both participate in the relationship in the same way. And the relationship can really easily shift into caregiving. 24/ 7. Sometimes that really, really takes away from the initial relationship as it was once created. Keely: Yeah. And you know, and going back to your agreements, being a caregiver for a little bit of time, you know, for a short amount of time or choosing to be there in a certain way with a partner, we're not saying that's not okay. You can agree to do that but having boundaries, even specific understanding of the agreements. Right. " You just got out of a mental health crisis and I'm here for you this week. I'm going to take a couple of days off work. I'm going to sit here with- Melisa: right. Keely: But that's different than months and months stretching through. Being the only person there. Melisa: Right. And it may even be verbalizing what you can and can't do like, "Hey, I'm able to take this week off work. I'll be there for you. Let's spend some time together. I can see you, you know, each day until about five o'clock. I'm not going to be able to help you with meals. Who do you want to get to help you with that? How can we get your meals covered, right?" Keely: Yeah. Planning it, identifying it, having a list and the person who is providing support for the person having mental health episode, challenge, however you wanna phrase it, there are groups like NAMI, you know, get your own support, have a friend that you feel comfortable telling, you know, because what happens is when you're more in that caretaking role and that major support role is you also deserve support in what you're doing, because it's challenging. it's a hard place to be. And so having whether it's a NAMI group of supportive spouses and partners or you have a family member or a best friend. And yeah, like you said, asking someone else, having the list were like, okay, I'm going to go out and hang out with a friend tonight. Susan's going to come over and hang with you for Susan's available, I checked in with her, you can call her or she'll bring a meal by. And I know it's really, because I've had these conversations many, many times in couple sessions and the person who's setting those boundaries and saying, "Hey, I can't do this all the time." It's really, really, really hard. So I'm not trying to underplay the challenge of that. Melisa: Frightening. Absolutely frightening. Especially if you feel like you're responsible for someone else's life. Keely: Yeah. And the really hard thing is we have to constantly remind ourselves no one is responsible for someone else's life. We are not responsible for another person's joy. We're not responsible for making them happy. We're not responsible for keeping them alive. But there's a lot of things we can be. We can, as partners, be supportive, be compassionate, bring joy, bring pleasure. But not just bring, but, like, participate in pleasure with the other person. It's just, we're not responsible for another human being, unless you're my kid. I am responsible for my kids . We're not talking about parenting, so yeah. Heavy, this one's hard. It's really hard. It is, but it's, it's an important topic, and I think the more we can all start talking about it, and that's part of why we have this podcast, we started to demystify and take the stigma away from these topics. I mean, the more conversation, the more resources and the more support people have. Yeah. So I think, I mean, we like to talk about what's working well and the things that are working well in this dynamic is when each person has not only their own therapist, but also couples therapy, and it doesn't mean you're in therapy the rest of your life, but have some experience of being in individual therapy, especially if there's acute depression and anxiety flaring up. Reaching out to individual therapists, along with couples therapists, having those resources, knowing those hotline numbers, we'll post that. We'll post some of these things like Trevor Project. Different places that you can reach out to. We'll put that on the website and we do have those resources there in our emails currently as well. Melisa: The other thing that comes to mind to name about what's working well is like the benefits to dating somebody who has struggled with mental health stuff. I think there are a lot, and maybe that sounds controversial to say especially coming out of my mouth when I've been like, oh, you gotta be whatever I've told you. Like what I look for in partners to some extent. But I actually really value people who have mental health challenges and have had some experience of working through them. I find them to be much more self-aware. I find them to be much more empathetic and insightful about themselves and experiences. I don't want to make a judgment about people who seem to not have any mental health stuff, but on a first date, if someone's like, "yeah, no, I've never experienced any anxiety or depression." I get a little concerned. I really do, because I'm like, oh, trauma. Like what have you been through in your life? Are you in touch with anything? Which world are you living in? So I'll name that. That's my bias, but for the people who have had challenges, still do have challenges, and are doing the work, there's some really great opportunities for really deep partnership and connection because there's work being done, right. There's some people who are just oblivious to how we impact people in connection with them, oblivious to trauma, oblivious, to mental health. That's not necessarily the best recipe for a great connection either, you know? Sometimes, those of us who have struggled with mental health illnesses- I have a hard time with that word specifically, but mental health stuff. That's going to be my official word of the day. Keely: I know the illness part is hard. Melisa: Like it just like challenges, I guess. But I actually think that we can bring a watch to relationships and a lot of compassion and empathy. So I don't want to sit here and say, Steer clear of people. No. Keely: These episodes are not about that. It's just working with it. Melisa: Yeah. Totally. Learning from it, growing with it. Keely: Well, yeah. And so , you know, with this compassion and support and boundaries is you can say something that makes it really clear as you're like, okay, you've talked about these things and awesome. You're getting support for it. So I'm going to feel more comfortable or feel more able to engage in connection or relationship with you, because I know that you're doing this work for yourself and I want to be there to support you. And I have compassion for you and you're having anxiety, I'll sit there with you and I don't know food? I always think about food. I don't know. Sometimes the anxiety will increase with hungers. Melisa: I'm the one who like can't eat, which is also why it comes out so early on dates for me, because I'm probably not going to eat for like the first, like seven times we hang out, even though I'm starving because my anxiety and my gut, the connection, right work, and my body connection Keely: Oh, I'm opposite. If I'm feeling anxious, I'm just like, yeah, give me some chocolate, give me something for my mouth. Let my mouth move. Keep going. Well, I hope this is helpful for everyone and I will probably bring it up again or go more into specifics. We really touched, kind of glossed over more of an anxiety, depression piece. And we know there's a lots of, well, and I guess a couple of weeks ago we did touch on neurodivergency. That was a great interview. Maybe we'll bring someone in to specifically talk. I mean, ADHD is its own thing. There's lots of different pieces of mental health, but in the meantime- Melisa: Queer Joy. I actually went out on Friday. I did another solo date over the weekend. I have a traditional Saturday, Sunday weekend and I find if I do something Friday night, it makes the weekend feel longer because I like wake up Saturday. I'm like, oh, I've already had fun. Like what's so strategy. And I did a movie night. I took myself to see Everything Everywhere All At Once. I thought it was great. I really loved it. It came highly recommended from friends. And it was really fun to be. It's not the first movie I've seen, like since COVID happened. Yeah. The first one that there weren't only like two people in the theater. So that was scary and fun. I did wear a mask during the movie because I was so sitting closely to a bunch of people. I didn't know, for multiple hours, it felt really... that felt uncomfortable. But I have to say, and this like kicks up, like my love for theater. The responses from the audience, everyone laughing at the same time. I had not been in a scenario where I've had that experience. A communal like experience recently. That was amazing. And I like left like almost like falling in love with everyone in that theater, just because like, we were all there together. We just, we went through that. Didn't we, you know? Keely: The movie- cause I went on a date a couple of weeks ago. Well, I guess in two weeks, but whatever, like going to a movie date and getting popcorn and I went and saw that movie as well. The person I went and saw it with didn't really enjoy it as much. Melisa: See, that's why I went alone. I was like, I don't want anyone else's feedback. I'm going to enjoy this for myself. Keely: We've got, I love it. You're like myself. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed watching it with somebody, but yeah. They didn't ever, but I was even, I was at a bar the other day and they were like, I overheard people talking about it. I thought it was fantastic. Melisa: I loved it. I had a hard time describing it to my family the other day. Because I know it's not their style of movie. It wouldn't be cool, but I'm just sitting there like the worst movie description ever. I'm like, I loved it. You won't like it. Don't see it. Keely: Oh my God. Melisa: I shouldn't be writing reviews for a living. Keely: Well, I thought it was pretty cool as well. So. Yeah. I mean, I would say my Queer Joy was a date and I would also say just my Queer Joy is coming more into really authentically, full-heartedly choosing to hang out or not a hangout and not feeling getting away from sheds as much. I have such this drive that I think if I get invited somewhere that I need to go, I should go, or I'm going to miss out. I really, really enjoyed empowering myself to be like, no, I'm not going to do this. I don't feel like doing this. Yeah. And if the other person has a reaction to it, that's about them because me choosing not to do something or to do something is really mainly about myself and how I feel in that moment and honoring it. Melisa: Absolutely. You get that choice. Keely: We all get that choice. Let's not manipulate each other emotionally. Oh, I'm way down in mental health spiral now. But yeah, the movie was great. I had so much fun watching that movie. I didn't mind eating popcorn at the movie and yeah, I usually wear a mask too, cause I was like, oh, but yeah, maybe I don't remember people so much reacting like that. And I, I, when I went and saw it as well, there was like this, a lot of laughter. These dramatically what's going on. I mean, it's a pretty dramatic movie, so that's why there was such responses. Yeah, totally. Melisa: Yeah. It was great. I just love that crowd feeling. Keely: Yeah, for sure. Well, more to come because it's just May, so we're all going to be coming out and enjoying life again in a different way in the sun and in connections. So God, yeah, I would say try out the movie, find it. Well, that's it for this week. Thanks for listening again. And we hope you all have a Queer and Joyful week. Cardinal: Thanks for listening to Queer relationships, Queer joy, a podcast by the Connective Therapy Collective hosted by Kelly C Helmick and Melissa DeSegiurant. I'm your producer Cardinal marking audio is edited by Mars Gaspar. Intro music is by bad snacks. If this episode made you smile or think, tell us about it, if you hated it, tell us about that. Review us on iTunes or Spotify, or send us an email at info at Connective Therapy, Collective dot com for more queer joy. Visit our website at www dot Connective Therapy. Collective dot com. Love ya. Bye.