Can being honest about what you need actually sound sexy instead of needy? How do we foster more connection and figure out how we're all the same instead of focusing on our differences? Hear it all on this episode of the Queer Joy Podcast; where two relationship therapists explore what it looks like to see joy in queer relationships.
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TRANSCRIPT
Keely: I have never heard this full story in this way where someone actually told their partner and moved through it together. I mean, what a brain modeling and then to just be doing your thing and really in this connection and healthy communication with these two people, and then it worked out how it's supposed to work out. Melisa: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Queer Relationships. Queer Joy! Hi Kelly. How are you? Keely: I'm doing alright. How are you? Melisa: I'm doing well. I'm pumped. I know it's been the two of us for a little bit. Keely: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to our guests today, especially, you know, it's Mental Health Awareness Month still, and we've been focusing on relationships and mental health. And so it's nice to have someone to chat with as well to, I dunno, lighten the mood a little bit, get back to hearing about other people's relationships. Cause I will say I've had a lot of relationship stuff and Ooh, that uh lunar eclipse last night, there is some definite purging going on. Needless to say, I had one of the most interesting conversations. I didn't have a breakup, but I had a person who I'm dating come back to me and they got back with their former anchor partner. And they're like, so yeah, we're just going to be friends with bennies. And I was like, do I want to be friends with benefits or do I just want to be friends? And then I was also not friends with somebody and then my other person- it's been a lot of purging. And I think I may just be fully solo and I may just not date for a while at all. Melisa: But yeah, flipping positions, Keely! What's happening? Keely: You and I are flipping positions and here's Jamie sitting in the background being like, I got my person. Jamie: I was going to say, because you said out loud, what you just did, Keely. There's going to be a person that comes around and any day now, once you swear people off, that's the magic to having someone show up in your life. Melisa: That is the tip of the day. Keely: Yeah. I think Melissa can attest to that, but they get to say whatever they want. But yeah, it does feel like we're flipping cause you're dating now and have your situations going on. Is there anything that you want to fill people in? Because I could stop talking about breakups anytime. Jamie: The Melisa. Melisa: Yeah, the tea. Oh gosh. Well, I'm one of those people that I can't really process stuff that's happening in the moment out loud. Let alone on a podcast. But I will say that I'm actively dating. I'm doing the poly thing just when I thought like, oh, I could be monogamous and it's like, or maybe not. So doing the poly dating definitely felt the eclipse. Fortunately, I seem to escape any like wounding that the eclipse may have given to people, but the purging is happening for sure. Keely: Jamie. Do you have experience with the lunar eclipse? Jamie: I think so. I think that there's just some ebbs and flows that happen in general and just any form of relationships. But during times like this, I feel them extra, extra, I think. Because I am an extra, extra person as a triple water sign. Keely: You went there. Triple water sign. Jamie: Yeah. Cancer.. Cancer twice and Scorpio, I think is the third. Is that right? Keely: Oh, so you had the Scorpio in you and you for the Scorpio moon last night. Jamie: A hundred percent. And so I have all the fields all the time. Keely: Well, that's sad. That's quite an intro. Let's start with intros or, you know, continue with intros now. I am Keely C. Helmick. I'm the owner of Connective Therapy Collective. I am a white queer non-binary femme. Pretty much solo at this point, practicing somewhat solo non-monogamy, and a certified sex therapist. Yay. Melisa: And I'm Melissa DeSegiurant. I am a therapist at Connective Therapy Collective I'm white, bisexual polyamorous... solo poly right now, but there's some relationship check-ins coming up. So we'll see. Right. I'm so exciting. And I use she/they pronouns. Jamie: Awesome. I was kind of like viciously writing down the way that you intro. Cause I was like, I want it to match what you professionals do. My name's Jamie. I'm white, lesbian, monogamous, she/they pronouns. Sharon busiest unless she embarrassed me online then absolutely not. And then... what else? Yeah. Triple water sign. Electric vehicle charging station expert. Oregonian who's left a few times, but from here. Yeah, that's me in a nutshell. Keely: Wait. Did we talk about that before? Did I know that you were born in Oregon? Jamie: Yeah. I mean, I was born in Newport News, Virginia, but we moved here when I was two. So it's like, that's, I'm absolutely from any age, you know, like acknowledging growing up in Oregon. And I grew up 30 miles west of Portland in an area called North Plains. The biggest thing about North Plains is the Pumpkin Ridge Golf Course, as well as the Hang Glider that has been going on for years. It's just where you can take a plane and be pulled by another plane. Keely: Well, you are the second guest of like the past month to mention share. So that's some somehow share in the air. Jamie: Always in the air. Keely: She must be coming back full circle. Jamie: You can actually never leave, you know, like that's kinda... Keely: yeah. A gay icon for sure. Well, Jamie, we brought you on, unfortunately, we didn't get to see your partner today, but that's okay because we get to meet with you and we can bring them back on one day if, if they want to, but- Jamie: A hundred percent. Hey, it's Cardinal. You're behind the scenes, buddy. This episode has a very steady theme of checking in, in relationships and what better to help facilitate a relationship check-in then our free relationship check worksheet. We talk about this a lot on the show. This worksheet is amazing. Y'all and I made it super beautiful. Cardinal: So I hope you liked that Melissa and Kelly made it super helpful with their therapist mind. And if you haven't already downloaded this worksheet and done it alone, or with a partner, a highly highly recommend. And if you have give us a shout out how to go, uh, it was it helpful. Uh, we're always looking for feedback, always looking to improve as well. So the link to that free relationship check-in worksheet is in the description. Back to the show. Keely: We like to hear, like, there's this romantic piece that we're like, Ooh, tell us your story. How did you all meet? Tell us the nitty gritty of the beginnings. Jamie: Yeah, totally. We definitely have an interesting beginning. The first being that we met New Year's Eve and then to New Year's day, a couple of years ago. And at that time I was partnered monogamously with somebody else. And after meeting my current partner, I had to tell my partner at the time later that night, like, I think I have a crush on this person. I was very, very drawn to her energy, the way she communicated, just kind of palpable. You can't make this stuff up. You can't pretend like there's nothing there. If there's something there kind of thing. And yeah. I felt it was really important for me to share with my current partner that I really liked this person. And I don't know if it's just a friend crush or if it's like, I'm kind of interested in pursuing more. And that partner at the time was super, super gracious. And in the sense of just like heard that, heard me and was like, let's explore this further. Like you, like, we should maybe hang out with Ayla more and see kind of what's there. And I had never been in that position before where a current partner was just down to just kind of be open and exploratory. Yeah. You don't know. So let's kind of go further there. I think the funny part was, you know, we didn't, I did not necessarily tell Ayla at the time that I was like wanting to pursue something further. So it was like kind of these like date missions. They're on there, there, you know, like, is there more here? And the way that all panned out is we, we did kind of the three of us all hang out a few times and you know, the friendship was real and the something more dot, dot dot, because the pandemic happened. And so, that basically stopped everything. There was no ending to that story at the time. So then my current partner moves to somewhere else to be close to family, you know, like during the pandemic times. And, and I'm still in a relationship. We kind of stopped talking. We lose touch for many months and then- Keely: Ayla lost touch or you and your partner? Jamie: Me and Ayla. Keely: So you met and then you had this thing and you have this like, sounds like a really rad partner who's like, Hey, I'm super emotionally mature. Let's pursue this. And then the fucking pandemic happens. Jamie: Bingo. Then pause, pause. So then this is actually really funny. So then. Quite a few months later, me and the partner I had during the pandemic, broke up. All good, great person. Off we go. So we stepped great. And then all of a sudden, you know, I get a text from Ayla and it's a video asking, is this you? And a few years ago, I got to be on Portlandia, and I was in a couple of episodes of Portlandia. So she recognized me on the show that she was watching and said, "is this you?" And I said, yes, monkey emoji with the- it is. And she was like, "wow, this is like my favorite television show. Are you free for dinner soon?" And I'm like, you're back. And so then that kind of resurfaced, like us meeting back up. And our first kind of like hanging out together was just like, oh, this is so fun. And like my old friend kind of, and then halfway through, I was like, slap across the face. I'm like, you idiot, you have a crush on this person. And then it was like, kind of all came back, like after that. Wow. Melisa: That unfinished business. And then you, it sounds like you kind of just energetically picked up right where you left off. Jamie: Bingo. Yeah. Bingo. Yeah. Keely: Then what happened? So was that your kind of first date, is that what you call your first date? Jamie: Pretty much. Yeah. We went to this really cute place in my neighborhood called Advice Booth. It's awesome. They have a lot of drag bingo there. And we met up and got food and that was our first date. And we both could not stop talking at each other until I was like, can we like shut up long enough to like, make out like, like we have to stop. And yeah, that's really kind of like the jumping off point of where we're at now, which is, I think we're at about a year and a half of being together. Yeah. Melisa: Wow. Amazing. Jamie: Life is so nonlinear. Like what the heck? Keely: Yeah. What I really enjoy about the story so far, cause we're going to ask more questions, of course, but that you as monogamous person did the thing, you know, so often people will be like, if you have a crush on somebody, or don't cheat on me, just tell me and how often. I have never heard this full story in this way where someone actually told their partner and moved through it together. I mean, what a brain modeling and then to just be doing your thing and really in this connection and healthy communication with these two people, and then it worked out how it's supposed to work out. Jamie: Totally. And it's like, no one felt like they were had, or being, yeah, that there's something untruthful there. Like it was, it could not have been any better, certainly from my perspective, which felt really great. It's like, it's kind of like the course ran through the honesty of this situation. Fantastic. Melisa: That's really amazing. I agree. Keely. It's like, I haven't heard of that. And I'm so happy that you are talking about your experience because what we like to focus on is like what's working, you know, and so often we're like, oh, I can't be honest about my feelings. So, and so we'll have this reaction and we've kind of unpacked codependency on the podcast before, and I think that's a really great model of just, no, this is really what's happening and okay. Sure. Let's see what happens. Jamie: Totally. Yeah. I'm kind of very upfront and honest to a fault. I think it is the feeling a lot of things. And it's like, I think that there's no worse feeling than trying to pretend or trying to live a truth that's not truthful. It's very painful and it always shows up somewhere else. It's just too much fuss for me. So I'd just rather just shoot it straight. The relationship could have ended there, but I would rather live with that than live with the I wasn't honest, and you know, that sort of thing. That's huge. Yeah. Melisa: So year and a half, how has it been transitioning relationships during a pandemic? Jamie: Definitely challenging. I think Keely, did you mention, you've been in a lot of relationships? Is that a direct quote? Melisa: I feel like between the two of us, we've done some pandemic relationship hopping, if you will. Jamie: Yeah. I have been in a lot of relationships. I am not afraid of commitment at all. I enjoy being with people and really enjoy being a partner. And so was it like in the pandemic challenging? Sure. But to be honest, it's like, it was kind of how life just goes, which is something ended and something new started. I've been super upfront and honest about this with my partners, but yeah. I've lived in the same house for awhile. And now there's been like a few people who have lived in this house and I'm the only constant. So I'm like, listen, like danger, be aware, you know, some people come in and they leave and, you know, I'm the only one that stays. So like, it is. But it just, I don't know, it just is this like whole fresh new beginning and the house changes and sometimes pets change and some like, I don't know, but I just, I have a very odd ability to just kind of roll with it. And I think there's heaps there, there on, on why I'm kind of, you know, able to just kind of, you just move forward and keep putting one foot in front of the other. And it's like, each partnership is totally individual and unique. Okay. Yeah. Keely: Okay. So I have to ask, cause I've been on the other side of this, do you have remnants in the house or do you have the conversation about what objects were a part of a different relationship? Yeah, you're shaking. Yes. How does that go? Jamie: Well, funny enough, I'm going to be... funny is not the right word, but like everything comes back to just my stuff. Yeah, that's really kind of this like very clean baseline. Like it's always my couches, always my table, and if there was stuff that was like combined, if it's useful like plates or bowls or things of that nature, it's like, I'm not going to toss that out, but it's very rare in my experiences because I think I just stay relatively set and established that folks move in and then they take all their stuff out and then I'm left with exactly what I had at the beginning. Keely: It seems so queer to me. It's so gay. So I'll ask a question to, and Melissa, jump in with your questions. Are you friends with any of these people still? Jamie: A few. I am. And then a few are more of like this very respectful acquaintance, like lovely to see you when I see you. And if not, we're not talking there. There are no exes of mine that I regularly converse with. Melisa: It sounds amicable because in some relationships where perhaps a partner would have an issue, like with me being friends with an ex, but in a queer community, like how do you not. Well, if you can't be friends with any of your exes, we've made the comment, like who are you friends with? Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. It is impossible to not see. And plus, because I grew up here. I'm 33. So I have about, let's just call it 15 years of relationships. And so I see people all around. I see people online. I see people that I've dated be with 10 other people. And they've seen people, you know, they've dated me and I've been with 10 other people. So there is kind of this, like this perfect like harmony of just like how the, the beehive kind of changes. Keely: Yeah, totally. Well, Jamie, I respect that. Cause you know, you said you grew up in Portland or Oregon, so I grew up in Oregon. I'm 41. So add all those years, those interconnections. Oh yeah. I feel, yeah, for sure. Jamie: A hundred percent. Melisa: I've been in Portland for like a year and a half and I feel like I'm already seeing that happening. So I can imagine. Jamie: It's also super funny because the only other places I've moved is San Francisco and Los Angeles. And those two queer meccas have heaps of crossover. I'm like, there's tons of people that I used to know in those areas that now live here. In fact, like when I moved to San Francisco, I met someone as like a friend of mine who then moved to Portland. I introduced them to one of my long-term Oregon friends. They're getting married in three months cause they'd been together for six years. So it's like, there's just tons of this like crossover of people. And it's great. Keely: Yeah. There's like a Portland, San Francisco, LA, Sacramento, like little thing that happens. In fact, the person I was just talking about, who is back with their anchor partner, nesting partner, that's a Sacramento situation and we have all sorts of interconnections and I just met this person like four months ago. So yeah. It's a hundred percent real. It's real. So do you and Ayla live together? Jamie: We live together right now and our timing of moving together came during that snowstorm last March, was it? There's nothing like starting to live together when your partner at the time just didn't have hot water or electricity and it was like, let's go save her and her dog, bring her here. And then I was like, you should definitely stay like, this is great. Keely: Any challenges? What's been the challenges doing so far? Jamie: Oh, for sure. Definitely. As we have tons of similarities and personality and humor and a lot of those kinds of things, like we grew up totally differently and like, I'm a farm kid that is very like chores oriented and probably absolutely more of like this like clean freak chores related person than she is. And that's probably like our number one argument. It's just like, who's cleaning, who's cleaning. I'm like, I need more help with the cleaning. That's pretty much the main thing. Keely: That crosses all genders, sexuality, relationships all the time. Melisa: Comes up all the time. Jamie: A hundred percent. I think that, and then we've been talking about this a lot recently is just like, we're both kind of still growing out of and getting through some past traumas and triggers. And sometimes those turn into blockers with going further with each other, like, and in tackling problems, like sometimes we don't address something because we don't want to hurt the other one's feelings. Just yesterday, like took a road trip and we're talking about that, and we're like, we know that that is of no service to the other person. We know that. But we're still working on it because we very much want to keep the peace. Roll with it. Be a cool guy. Like it's not all, you know, dah, dah, dah, but really it's like, if you have something to say, and if it's weighing on you come out and just like, talk to me about it. We would both prefer that. So I think that piece plus the cleaning is really our biggest one. Melisa: Totally. It sounds like you kind of did this when you were talking about the road trip, but I'm curious, do you have intentional relationship check-ins where you kind of check in on, like, how is that going? How is managing the trauma responses happening? Jamie: For sure. And I think that actually this is the first relationship where that is being done pretty consistently. And I think you know, the pandemic has forced this inwardness, healing, self work and self-love, which is just wonderful. It's amazing how easy it is to forget about you. So I think we're both very committed to that mission, and because we are, and because we've chosen to be side-by-side, it's like we have to do that. A lot of times, we'll be like, "hey, do you want to go grab a bite and just kind of debrief on anything that you want to talk about?" Or "what can I support you with right now?" and I just so appreciate that. I do a lot better mentally and emotionally with just clarity. Hearing that is helpful. So I'm all about say more than less. Melisa: We talk about communication all the time, like, I want to say every episode, probably. Keely: Every hour of our lives. Yeah. Melisa: But I mean, I do appreciate Jamie, you giving those examples because I have so many clients who are trying to maybe a lot of listeners who are wanting to do relationship check-ins, but have never done that before. And it can feel really intimidating and almost like it needs to be this formal process when it really can just be casually checking in, like, what do you need from me right now? Jamie: A hundred percent. I think that actually is also some of the barrier is like, yeah. Is it super sexy to just say exactly what you need? Like maybe not. Actually these conversations lead into very sexy things, I think like, and that's both in depth, but also. Yeah, the more comfortable I do feel with my partner, the more that I want to love on them so hard, you know? So it's like it's, to me, it's like definitely all worth it. If you try to avoid that, it will build up in some other or very direct way. And so I think both me and Ayla are just trying really hard to overcome some of those like past relationship little mountains or mole Hills so that we can like see this through longer. Keely: Yeah, it sounds like you, you both have these similar ways of being able to communicate, recognizing patterns. Multiamory's another podcast and they had put out these two episodes about describing what you were just saying in more depth, having these categories and labels of different patterns, but that you are sitting here with this person recognizing these and talking about them and what a gift to both of you and to your relationship. Jamie: A hundred percent. I mean, I respect her so much and she shows me how much she respects me too. And I think that's a piece of it. It's like, and also if I don't know what I need or want, like, that's also something that you should tell your partner. Like, I don't know what I need. I'm not sure. And I know I'm maybe giving off that I'm creating distance or maybe I'm giving off this or whatever, but like, I don't know what I need right now. I think I might need some space to figure it out. That's cool too. It's just, I think we get sometimes it's you can get caught up in this like assumption mess of just like what you think and if the other person hasn't told you directly what that is. I don't think assumptions are helpful. Keely: Yeah. I mean, you said two things right there. The authenticity, honesty, like those are two of the biggest values. Jamie: Bingo. Keely: Well, I have to say people who are listening. So I met Jamie, I don't know, a couple months ago, and I remember. Like one of the reasons I just randomly texted you is like, Hey, beyond, beyond the show was you have such this bright energy and you do that really shows through. I mean, people can say, oh yeah, I'm an honest person. Or I'm authentic. People can, you know, talk about their egos all day, but you really, actually, to me, you do give that off. Like, you're very just upfront. You're there. You have this really lovely energy that just draws people in and. It's very evident. These things that you're talking about. And I can imagine your partner just like, yes, yes. We'll have to, we'll have to ask her, get her and get her side. Yes. That will be important for sure. But thank you so much. That really does mean a lot to me. I think it means a lot to me because I think that's exactly how I want to come off. to me, it's like a badge of honor when people trust you. And when you do create safe space and places and knowing that like you're so imperfectly the right person to do that, it's at least it's the minimum I can offer a truth baseline of just like being honest. So thank you. That was like such a delicious compliment. Oh, yeah, totally. I try to be super honest too, but that's bluntness sometimes and honesty go hand in hand for me. Jamie: Go. There you go. Melisa: Well, you know, what's so wonderful when you can show up authentically too, is I find it disarms people and then invites them to show up authentically as well. And in a world where there's so much disconnection, I'm really interested in, how do we foster more connection and figure out like how we're all the same instead of focusing on our differences. And I think we can do that through bravery vulnerability, authenticity. Jamie: Could not agree more. I hate to speak for her, but I think she, she would be very cool with this. I mentioned I've been in like a hundred thousand relationships and Ayla hasn't and she has a totally different lived experience. She has different parents that have modeled different things and all of that have differences. And I think it's contagious when you create safe spaces. And I think it's smiles are contagious. Like energy is contagious, all of that stuff. And I think like Ayla has shared that, you know, she's had these some past relationships where it's like having these conversations was a non-starter because of the reaction that would elicit from even starting the conversation with the other person. And that breaks my heart because it's like, you can never get anywhere. It's like trying to reason with unreasonable. So it's like, it really is this, like both parties have like me to be playing by similar ground rules in order to like, come through that. Because if I'm blocking every time Ayla is trying to reach, like then what do you w what, what do we expect? Like what's going to happen. I want good results. So it's like I'm- yeah. Keely: Right? You want connection? Yes. You just regurgitated what we say. What so many therapists say all the time. It's like, what is the recipe for connection and what do we do? Creating that safe space, open communication, authenticity, honesty. I mean, I should listen to like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Where do I find that? Is this person for real? Melisa: You hit the nail on the head though, too with like all parties involved, need to be kind of on the same page as to what you're trying to get. I have that all the time with individual clients of like wanting to work on relationship dynamics and we, you know, I'm, I'm referring off into couples therapy because there's only so much one person can't make the whole dynamic. And in fact, I found that if one person starts doing all these things differently, without any consent or conversation about it can actually be really jarring and damaging in the relationship. So I love that point about, yeah, everyone's gotta be playing the same game. Jamie: Totally totally. A hundred percent. Yeah. I could talk about that for like, I give dozens of examples, but yeah, it's just so true. It's like, how do you know otherwise, like, and if I feel like in relationships in general, it's just like, both parties can agree to have one that doesn't look like mine. Like it could look totally different. It just depends on what those two consenting parties or however many agree with. Like mine isn't for everyone. That's totally fine. Yeah. Keely: So if you were to name or maybe have Ayla, if you're not totally speaking for her, but what, along with communication in this beautiful picture you painted for us with your words what's working well currently, what's your thing going smoothly? Jamie: Fun. Fun. Yeah. It's humor. It's outside. It's like being outside. It's like throwing a Frisbee or sitting in front of the fire a little extra at night or it's just anything that is part of like our wanna do list like yesterday it was kind of rainy, but we were like, I'm literally, like, it would just make me so happy to go to the coast. Like, let's go to the coast. Like we're very, very good adventure partners together where we are DTF. And in this sense, it is down to fund and off to the beach and we're soaking wet head to toe and we're smiling ear to ear. That is like that's for us, like our cup of tea. So I think being like adventure partners is a key and like something that works really well for us. Slowing down to have the conversations we absolutely need to is working. What else? Really supporting each other. Like this has been one of the hardest years of my life for a few reasons, which is kind of, it's like, we've, we all talk about how hard the last two years were. And I was like, yeah, they were pretty hard, I guess, but this one is really hard and Ayla has completely been there for me. And I can't say that that was the going for, or that I felt like I could fall apart with someone or else around. And so, and vice versa, it's like she's needed me to be the rock at some points. And like, I'm more than happy to do that. So that, that seems to be really working to awesome. Well, we like to wrap up our conversations with queer joy of the week, or I guess we could extend it to queer joy the month, but just be like to talk about queer joy at the end. So that was a great . your last answer was such a great transition into queer joy. We can give you a second to think of yours. I like Melissa to start with this. Melisa: I'm really pumped about this one. I'm claiming this as my queer joy, even though it hasn't happened yet. On Sunday, I am going to see my first concert since COVID happened, which that's like a big thing for me. So I'm really, really excited. And I'm like more excited about who I'm seeing. I'm seeing my favorite guitarist. Her name is Kaki King. She's queer and fantastic and amazing. And I've been obsessed for many, many years. So I get to see her live and she's really transformed into like more of a performance artist. So there's just, it's going to be an experience. And I am so grateful that I get to be like in the presence of her greatness. So it was supposed to be in February. It got postponed. It is now happening. Probably by the time we air this it's already happened. That is definitely my queer joy. She's fantastic. I recommend looking her up. She's amazing. Keely: Oh, well my queer joy of the week was dancing in the rain on the coast. I drove, we had quite a situation actually. I was driving to the coast for a retreat, a business retreat, not a fun like woo retreat. And I was with a friend and her car broke down in the front of Starbucks, but we were able to get, you know, get it together, arrive late and sitting through six hours of a business retreat on the coast and this beautiful house, but all these therapists. And it was just like, oh my goodness gracious. And I'm sitting here representing, you know, or Sage and, and all the queer therapists. And I was like, you know what? I have to touch the water. Like that is my thing. And so I got there and my friend is just like, oh my gosh, only a true Oregonian would be at the coast. It's raining, chilly, and touch the water and think this is a great day. And I'm like, hell yeah, like it is the best, the best. Melisa: Liberating. Jamie: Queer joy for me, actually, it's a little bit of a plug too. Is that okay? There's that? Keely: We're gonna ask for a plug afterwards so do it now. Jamie: A little bit of a double whammy on May 20th at Mississippi Pizza Pub, Butch Is Not A Dirty Word is doing a queer live storytelling event. And I'm participating in that with five other queer people. There'll be two sessions. I think the first session is at 6:30. It's sold out. Next session is at 9:30 and there's still like a dozen tickets left. And so very much recommend it. I mean, a very kind of literal queer joy in the sense of sharing our stories are all very different. Some are happy, some are sad, some are everything in between. And, but it is all the storytelling piece and sharing that mic and just space with folks that find comfort and joy in that is such an honor. So I'm very much looking forward to that. And that is happening just four days from now. So I'm stoked. Keely: Yeah. Let's have Cardinal put something up. We'll post something about it for sure. Gosh, it would have been pre pandemic and it, I, yeah, I agree. It's such a great, it was such a great show and totally supportive. I have a couple of the magazines here in the office somewhere. Yes. Well, thank you, Jamie, for joining us today will love, you know, we're such a, I'm such a stint for like all these like beautiful love stories and these relationships and what's going well. So thank you for joining us and yeah, and we hope you all have a clear and joyful week. Jamie: Thank you. Bye. Cardinal: Thanks for listening to Queer relationships, Queer joy, a podcast by the Connective Therapy Collective hosted by Kelly C Helmick and Melissa DeSegiurant. I'm your producer Cardinal marking audio is edited by Mars Gaspar. Intro music is by bad snacks. If this episode made you smile or think, tell us about it, if you hated it, tell us about that. Review us on iTunes or Spotify, or send us an email at info at Connective Therapy, Collective dot com for more queer joy. Visit our website at www dot Connective Therapy. Collective dot com. Love ya. Bye.