Do life partners make good business partners? What challenges will they face? How do Tam and Morgan of Rebel Heart Therapy make it work? Hear it all on this episode of the Queer Joy Podcast; where two relationship therapists explore what it looks like to see joy in queer relationships.
Pro-choice resources:
Marches, action, and abortion support: plannedparenthoodaction.org Donate or get financial assistance for abortion: abortionfunds.org Laws and legal stuff: nwlc.org
Resources in Spanish: latinainstitute.org
Shop at As You Like It here: bit.ly/asyoulikeitshop
Connective Therapy Collective website: www.connectivetherapycollective.com
Rebel Heart Therapy website: www.rebelheartpdx.com
FB & IG: @connectivetherapycollective
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TRANSCRIPT
Tam: You are more gorgeous than you are when I met you and you are like more intoxicating. And I still love it when I hear stories you've told me before or when I get to hear new ones, like we're just, we're still very ridiculously of each other and love each other. Melisa: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Queer Relationships. Queer Joy. Keely: Hello? Hello, Melisa. It is another week of Pride. We'll probably talk a little bit about Pride today, but when this gets released, it may be the end of Pride, or we may be celebrating July by then, who knows. But welcome. We're gonna do some awesome interview today. Super excited. Do you have an update before we introduce our guests? Melisa: No, I think let's, let's jump into our introductions and my update feels like Queer Joy, so I don't wanna spoil it too early. Keely: Okay. That, that has been a habit of the Queer Joy kind of. Melisa: Yeah. Keely: Rearing its head super early. Okay. So, my name is Keely Helmick. I am the owner of Connective Therapy Collective. I'm a licensed professional counselor, certified sex therapist, white non-binary queer person currently solo. Practicing solo monogamy kind of though. Like that would be my update as like, yeah, I dunno if I'm a solo monogamy person. I think I like having a primary partner when I'm doing the non-monogamy thing, but that's, you know, that's where I'm at and we are on the hunt for a person to interview. We want a dating coach to interview. I'm gonna put that plug in right away. We're looking for some dating interviews. And we're going headstrong into the summer talking about dating. Melisa: So dating and queer apps. How do queer people date? How do they meet people? Well, I'm Melisa Deseguirant and I'm a clinician at Connective Therapy Collective. Licensed as a marriage, family therapist, and a professional counselor. I'm white, able bodied, bisexual, I'm polyamorous, solo-poly, and I identify as gender fluid. I use she and they pronouns. Tam: They're really good at this. Keely: They've had a lot of- Tam: I know. Morgan: We're gonna have this- Melisa: And it changes all the time It over changes. Yes. Tam: You wanna go first? You want me to- Morgan: I am Morgan Fitz Gibbon, co-owner of Rebel Heart Therapy with my co-guest over here. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I am white, lesbian, very proud of my ADHD. I think that's all I got. Tam: Is it, did you get it? Yeah. Okay. Very cool. I'm Tamara Werner. I'm the other co-owner of Rebel Heart Therapy. I'm white. I liked how Keely said it. Non-binary and queer. I was like, yes, that's I'm gonna steal that. That's great. I am a licensed professional counselor and I'm really excited and I don't, and I lost whatever else I was supposed to because I'm nervous and I have ADHD, so my whole brain just shut off. Keely: Well, Morgan, the way- well, and then you said it too, Tamara. I love how Morgan, you're like, "I'm proud of my ADHD." Well, especially the two of you being business owners and therapists, I think about some of the really outstanding parts of having ADHD. Experiencing ADHD is the ability to really. focus on things that you're really passionate about. And obviously, I'm overgeneralizing about ADHD, but also like doing lots of things and like, yes. And that then just rolling with it. Like that's something that I see that folks with ADHD really are able to do so well. Morgan: Yes. People with ADHD make excellent entrepreneurs for those reasons. If you have good support Around you. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. Keely: Love it. Hey, it's Cardinal. You're behind the scenes, buddy. I have something different for you today, as I'm sure. You know, Roe V. Wade has been overturned. We recorded this episode before that ruling. , but I wanted to make sure we still include some resources for you, whether you're wanting to protect the right to choose or have made the choice to get an abortion and need help, check the episode description for something to match your needs. All right. Back to the show. Keely: , so we like to just start, especially when we get to have guests who are in relationship with each other and the two of you in relationship in multiple ways, both romantically and business owners. Start from the beginning. How did you all meet? Morgan: We met on a dating app. Tam: We did meet on a dating app. Woo. Yeah, we met on Bumble. And they were really nice, cuz right before we got married, I contacted them and they sent me our entire chat history from when the two of us first knew so that I could save it, which was really sweet. So I had- Melisa: That's amazing. Keely: Oh my gosh. I love that. Tam: Yeah, it was really cute. It was really cute. Yeah. So we met on Bumble. You were on Bumble for how long before you met me? Morgan: About 12 hours. Tam: I was on for a little bit longer, but like not too much, but yeah, it was very cool. I saw her profile and I thought something that she put in there, she didn't say that she was a therapist, was something she put in there kind of alluded to it. And I was like, oh cool. Either I can date or at least I can meet like a queer colleague to hang out with. So either way win, win. Morgan: Yeah. I had a very strict don't date therapist policy. And you ruined that. Tam: You married one, like I really- yeah. You're welcome. Yeah. So we met in the end of the summer 2018 and we lived about an hour and a half away from each other. So it was like not really long distance, but just enough long distance to make it inconvenient and difficult. We're parents, we both have two kids and now we have four kids total. And so that was an interesting part of our dating was like maneuvering that the parenting around kids and stuff, but yeah. We connected really quick. Morgan: Yes. Tam: We had our first six dates planned out before we met the first time. Keely: Oh my God. Tam: One of them was the next day after- Keely: The Virgo in me is like obsessed with what you just said. Having it planned out? The romantic Virgo on me. Let me qualify that. Tam: Yes, right. Mm-hmm yep. Yep. How much detail do you want? Keely: I think the more you wanna talk, the better. Starting with the beginning then leads into this, like what's going well and what's what did we celebrate together? Yeah. What have you overcome? Tam: Oh, a lot. Yeah. Yeah, so we met in 2018. Dating was really fun. We saw each other a lot when I didn't have my kids. Had my kids every other week. Saw each other a lot. We were always texting, always on the phone. Oh, we should .Tell them about the first time that we met in person on our very first date. We should tell them about our first date. Morgan: Okay. Tam: Yeah. So where was that again? Morgan: Well, we didn't meet in person for like weeks because... Tam: Because she was really great. Y'all, like really great. And I was like, I'm gonna meet her and it's gonna be ruined. I actually didn't even wanna talk to her on the phone for a while cause I was like," I'm not gonna like your voice" -and then a minute and having a good thing. And then I didn't wanna meet her in person. And like, it's just, she, there's gonna be a thing that I don't like. And then it's ruined. Melisa: So you put it off to preserve the relationship opportunity. Tam: Tells you something about dating me. Yeah. So yes, it was like, Morgan: It was weeks. Tam: Weeks. Yeah. Maybe even five weeks. Wow. Maybe a little bit less than that. Yeah. Maybe like four weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Keely: Spreading out the longing it's like that. You know, people talk about the queer longing. So you're like spreading it out to really like sink into it. Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. It was great for me cuz I can be a little reserved when I first meet people. And by the time we met in person, that had worn off. So , so it made me more open for our actual in-person date, which is great. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Tam: So we went to box? Box social? Box social. So we met for drinks there and appetizers and she walked in and like my ridiculously queer heart was like, freaking out. Morgan: And I sat down next to you and had a complete love at first sight, this is my person moment, which I like never experienced before or since. Tam: Yeah, it was really magical. Morgan: Yeah. I just sat down and I was like, oh, this is a thing I'm gonna do a lot. Sitting next to you at dinner? Tam: Yeah. We always sit next to each other. She sat down. I was like, oh, I'm definitely getting laid tonight. Keely: Do I get laid tonight? Tam: That's what I thought. So yeah. It was a great date. We sat next to each other. We sat next to each other all the time since we really enjoy it. And, and we had drinks, we hung out, we decided to go have dinner down the street and we were holding hands and I like whipped her around and flung her into me and kissed around the street. Morgan: Yeah, it was a total romcom moment. Tam: Yeah, it was good. It was good. Melisa: Amazing. Yeah. Keely: Yeah, high five you Tim for taking the initiative. I feel like I literally just had a conversation- sorry to out somebody, that they were went on a queer date and were like, oh, I really wanna kiss the person, but I want them to kiss me and yay for the folks who make that first attempt initiative. Tam: Totally. Yeah. So then, we went on our next date the next day. So, we had a very long night that night. And then we went on a date the next day to like a lesbian party down at Produce Row and had a great date then. Yeah, that, that date, I was like, oh, this is gonna be a thing. And then I kind of got scared. Cause I was, I could tell on date two that I was like, Oh, she's amazing. Like, I was just sort of wanting to date and have fun for a while. And I, I knew pretty quick that was not gonna happen. My best friend, like a couple weeks later was like are you just gonna ask her to be your girlfriend I was like, no, no, I'm not ready for that. And she's like, no you saw you're like ready for that. You're already doing it. Like you should go. I made you cookies. Morgan: You did. It was very sweet. I still have the note in my office at home. Tam: It said, "will you be my girlfriend" on the, on the- Keely: Aww, cute. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, oh, we knew the date the day of the year that we were gonna get married like three, two months into dating. Wow. We didn't know what year. But we knew it was gonna be December 28th, which it was December 28th because you sent me a song. Right when Christmas music started playing and in it's talking about how this person's like never gonna have a Christmas alone again. And that they found their person. And it says three days after Christmas, I married you. And we were both, we were nowhere near each other. And both of us listening a song had the same thought like, oh, we're getting married on December 28th. Melisa: Wow. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. It was really magical. Like everything was amazing. She was this sexiest human I'd ever met. She aired this confidence about her that was like, invigorating. Like you get drunk off of it. I'd never known anyone who knew themselves and like goes against the grain a lot when it comes to this idea of how a woman should show up in the world and how she should move through it. And she just like pushes against that in the most beautiful ways and embraces all of 'em. I never met anybody with that energy before. Morgan: I don't like being told what to do. No, Tam: I should have known that earlier. Yeah. Keely: Another good point. Tam: We'll get there. Melisa: Gosh, it sounds like you two just had, I mean, pretty instant chemistry in a really deep, profound way. And sort of both the knowing of like where your trajectory was going to start to go. Morgan: Oh yeah. Yeah. So, Tam was ready to just enjoy dating. I had reached a point where I was like, I'm ready for a committed relationship. I made that decision and that's when I activated my Bumble profile. Tam: Woke up the next morning to a message from me. Morgan: And you're literally the only person I talked to. And you didn't know then that what you know now is that like, when I put my mind to something that's, that's what I'm gonna get. Tam: Yes, it does happen. Yeah. So dating was really fun. I went to Burning Man for the first time with her and it was unbelievable. I'd never been so relaxed in my whole life. And Morgan, that was her 12th year going. And so it was, it was really cool experiencing something that was very hers. Morgan: And I always say Burning Man will make or break a relationship. Usually it breaks relationships. I was, I didn't think it was gonna break our relationship, but I was not prepared for how incredibly well we did, Tam: It was amazing. Somebody there on like day, I don't know, eight was like, I can marry people by the way, just throwing that out there in case either of you wanted to- we were like, no, not right now, thanks. Melisa: Like we're picking something up here. I can help you with that. Tam: Yeah. So when we came back from Burning Man, August of 2019, we moved in together. Probably the first, like big thing that our relationship had other than being long distance had been, or not really long distance, but, you know, medium distance, medium distance had been so easy. We were in love. We communicated really great. We wanted to spend all our time together and also respected that we both had children and careers and and then we decided to move in together and had to do that pretty quick because we had kids starting school and we didn't wanna move them in at all. Oh. So we moved in pretty fast. So we moved in, went to Burning Man and came back to like, we were only living together for a couple of weeks before we went to Burning Man. And then we came back and adjusting to living together was, I mean, for us really easy. I think it, you know, Brady bunching the family... that was a thing. Morgan: Yeah, definitely. Tam: That was hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Morgan: You also experienced a major family loss at that time, too. So it was like a lot of stress. Tam: Yeah. It was a lot of stress and I don't do very well with letting people support me. It's like, you know, yeah. So moving together is it fast and exciting and we, we did really well. We've like maintained, really focused on date nights. And we were like, I don't know, just excited to be coming home together, but like, the whole, you know, four kids moving in together and that, like that aspect, the Brady bunching, the family aspect was our first really big challenge that hung out for a while. Morgan and I are incredible partners and business partners and friends and lovers. It took in a while before we were even good co-parents. We did it very differently. And there was a lot of tension in the house that I didn't like. Morgan: And they weren't just four kids either. These are four teenagers. Keely: Put into context: four teenagers. Age range. What was the age range then? Tam: Was Nics 11 or 12? They were still in elementary school. That's- Morgan: They had one year left. Tam: So probably 11, I would guess. So our youngest is. Phoenix, they have they them pronouns and they were 11 at the time. Okay. And then there's Jacob who was 14 at the time. Morgan: Mm-hmm then so Stephanie would've been 14. Yeah. And Elizabeth was seven. Tam: 17. Yeah. Yeah. So 11 to 17. Our then 17 year old is- Morgan: Was she? Yeah, she was 18, 18, right? When we moved in together. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. She's turning 21 this week. Wow. Which is weird two days in two days, which is weird and wild. But yeah, so, so the teenagers together, that was hard. Yeah. We fought a lot. Yeah. Yeah. We, that was hard. October of 2019. I took you back to the Box Social and proposed to you. And I was wearing the same dress. Yeah. As when we first met and you were wearing like a suit, a suit. It was very handsome. Yeah. I like that. And then you proposed to me Morgan: on December 28th. Tam: Yes, exactly one year before we're gonna get married. She took me to the church where we were gonna get married down in Sellwood, the Oaks Pioneer church. Beautiful heavens. Keely: Yes. It's lovely. Tam: Yes, it's amazing. So she took me there December 28th, 2019. I knew she was gonna propose to me. We had like planned that I get to propose to her first and then she propose whenever she wants. It did not occur to me. We're standing in front of this church and she starts saying all these really nice things. And I'm like, oh, was I supposed to prepare something? What the hell's happening? but I was like, oh, she's proposing! It didn't even. I didn't even know what was gonna happen. It was really cool. Morgan: I'm so glad. Tam: Yeah. Cause you thought I knew. I was- Morgan: There was no way you weren't gonna figure that out. Tam: I didn't figure it out. Didn't figure it out. No, no. Yeah. Yeah, so, so we were planning a wedding through all this too, like 20, 20. Oh yeah. Planning a wedding. Morgan: And then replanning it. And then replanning it because we weren't gonna change the day, but it definitely wasn't gonna look the way, you know, we had had like reserved a venue for reception that we couldn't have. Tam: Which yeah, by the way, having a zoom wedding. It's really cool. Yeah, because afterwards you just get to go do whatever you wanna do, which is limited in a quarantine, but like, there was no like having to go around and do the small talk with people and like, make sure everybody's happy and, and where they need to, like, we just like bye everyone enjoy. Melisa: We're gonna enjoy our time. Tam: yeah, that was great. Yeah. Morgan: And it eliminated all the, like, who are we inviting and who aren't we? Yes. Because we couldn't invite anyway, our kids were there and we had two witnesses cuz we needed two adult witnesses and that was it. That was it. Yeah. Yeah. It was lovely. Tam: And then it kind of started to get a little bit easier in the beginning of 2020, and we all know where this is going. Melisa: mm-hmm yeah. Yep. Keely: There you go. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. Melisa: Especially with teenagers. My gosh, I mean, not to say the pandemic's been not rough on everyone else, but I was working with teens at the time and it was just devastating for them for so many. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. It was hard on them and we definitely had some challenges, you know, some around mental health with it and some struggled around school with it. But for the most part, our kids did pretty well, especially in that, you know, first few months I think once they were going back in the fall of 2020 to school online, again, that, that got a little bit like, are you, are you kidding me? Yeah. But they did okay. And I was just really grateful we didn't have like an eight year old in the house. My, my youngest is really good at school. Like school just comes very naturally to them. And so I wasn't doing a lot of teaching at home. But I couldn't imagine having like, an eight year old or a four year old or a, like maybe a toddler, cuz they're around all the time anyways. But like someone that like you have to teach elementary school too. That would not. And then we both had our own businesses, so we both had individual private practices. Morgan: And you swore we'd never work together. Ever. yeah. Tam: You also swore you'd never date a therapist, so that's- Morgan: true. Tam: Just, yeah. Yeah, we swore we'd never work together. And then we were shoved to work literally in the same space with 2020 and how did it happen? How do we end up running this amazing business that's consumes our time? Morgan: So I had the plan for the business for a long time, and I actually went through all the, like, you know, legal paperwork to make it happen in 2018. And then I was like, I've got a new relationship. We're moving in together. I can't do all of this right now. It was too much I was, I was single parenting. Like it was, it was just too much. So I decided that I was gonna just put it on hold. And then at the beginning of 2020, I think maybe the end of 2019, I was like, okay, I'm ready to give this a go again. I think it had been about a year that I'd put it on hold. Tam: Yeah. We updated your website to switch it over to, that you were moving more into like a, a group practice sort of situation. Keely: Yeah. Yeah. Wait, so I, I guess I didn't realize this. So y'all started pretty much the same time Connective started. Morgan: Yes. Crushed it like about the same time. Keely: Yeah, I didn't realize. Tam: Yeah, I mean, the business' actual birthday's in 2018 because that's when you went through process, but like starting was yeah, right around the exact same time. Yeah. And so I started doing your website and then you asked me to be a supervisor. Morgan: Yes. Tam: Just on the side. Morgan: Yes. I had been working as a practicum supervisor at Lewis & Clark for years, and I knew that at the end of that school year, I was gonna transition out of doing that and bring more interns into my practice. I'd had one or two here and here or there, but I really wanted it to be a focus. So I had three, I had two and then they were like, would you take one more? And I was like, okay, I'll take one more. And they were like, would you take another one? And I was like, no, that's too many. But let me see what I can do. And so that fourth intern came in as part of Rebel Heart, but she was your supervisee. Tam: Right? She was specializing in eating disorders at Lewis & Clark and my entire background of counseling was in eating disorders. So she wanted to work underneath me. She's amazing by the way, in case... all a plug for Abby anyways- Keely: Yay. I love looking other people up. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. She's amazing. Morgan: So here we were sharing space and we're literally working out of our closets. Yeah. Which the irony. Tam: Yeah, a lot of our clients actually really they're like, oh my God, you're back in the closet. And I'm like, that's really not funny because it's just not funny. But it was funny. It was good. Keely: Yeah. Like not funny, but funny but not. Funny. Tam: Yeah. Yeah. It kind of hurts, but yes, funny. Morgan: Yeah. Cause I mean, we had a, good enough sized house for all six of us. But not for all six of us to be at home and trying to have confidential sessions with clients, which is how we ended up in the closet. Yeah. And then, what was that? Keely: Oh, well, I was gonna say so that, you know, you're talking about both your romantic relationship. And then your business relationship and each one separately is a lot to go through a pandemic, but you have this combined. Yeah. And Morgan, maybe, sorry, I've interrupted you, maybe you were just about to go there, like yeah. How did that work? Tam: Well, your individual private practice became the group practice. Everything shifted. I was still doing my private practice and I was only supervising for Rebel Heart at that time. So I was like, it wasn't for a while that I was like, okay, this, this is gonna be a thing. Well I guess it, it happened pretty quick. Before the pandemic, we would go out on dates and pull out a notebook and just sit there and like plan these amazing things that Rebel Heart Therapy was gonna do. Cuz Morgan is just a visionary and had these really beautiful ideas for this business and her mind works in ways that mine doesn't and mine works in ways that hers doesn't. And so we had this really great time. It was very connective for us on dates, having the kids at home and this like kind of chaos that was having in 2019 with combining houses. But then we would go out on dates and pull out a notebook and just do this really cool thing about where this amazing business was gonna go. And and so it had always been this very like centering thing thing for us. Yeah. Especially if we were like disconnected, we would intentionally go out on a date to do like forward grand thinking around the business because it would always bring us back together. And so it was so natural that it turned into what I said it would never do of me, you know, co-owning the business because it, it is an area where we just thrive. Morgan: Yeah. And it wouldn't be, I mean, it would've existed in some manner with, without your part, but it wouldn't be what it is. No, no, no, because you bring in the other half of things where I'm not strong. Tam: Oh, oh yes, absolutely. I mean, we play to each other's strengths because they're very different. And so we, like, there are aspects of running this business. There's like, no way I could ever do. And Morgan just seamlessly does them and, and vice versa. And she has these really big visions and I like to do like little tasks and like get 'em all done and do like 90 at a time. And so it just works out really well with us. So yeah, so the business, just the, I loved supervising with Morgan. I'm obviously very passionate about everything queer, and I just started noticing more and more of my energy being put over there. Yeah. And it became very long and a lot of work managing both of these businesses. And I started to realize that if you asked me what I was doing for work, I was going to start talking about Rebel Heart because I had already started shifting and, and then you asked me if I would be co-owner with you. I don't even remember when that was. It had to be before May cuz we like made it official in May. So I, I came on to rebel heart as a co-owner May 1st, 2020, but I ain't closed my business. No. 20 21, 20 21. Yeah. Oh, okay. So that, I was gonna say that happened really quick. It didn't feel like that quick. It was a full year of me helping. Yeah. So 2020 is just a wash, whatever we are at home, we are working with. Interns, we're trying to plan a wedding. We were managing four kids trying to blend a family, trying to blend a family, trying to build our relationship or at least not let the pandemic crush it which is a lot of work. Yeah. Trying to maintain date nights when your date night is in the same space where you work and sleep, work and sleep. Yep. And your kids are downstairs all the time. Yeah. In a house that had no insulation and you could hear everything everywhere. That was fun. Yeah, so it's, it was, it was hard. Yeah, it was. So 2020 we actually managed 2020 really well. Mm-hmm we did really well, 20, 21 jacked this up, like right about the early summer of 2021. When we were still working out of our closets and you know, like we had more, it was just a lot, like all of a sudden it was just like, are we still, it became too much. And we both got, you know, really cooked. Melisa: What's cool about the way you talk about working together. And I've heard that before, like, oh, I would never work with my partner or a friend, or I feel like that's just said, but the way you both described it. You're creating together. It's not just working together. Like you're building something together and, and I like that you named that being connective, that's actually something that you, it sounds like you bond over in lots of different areas of your life. Not just professionally. Yeah. Yeah. So Morgan: Tamara is the best parent I have ever met. You know, we came into this relationship past the point where we wanted to raise anymore little kids. And so we, we always joked that this business is our baby. Yeah. Rebel Heart is our baby. And so those first couple of years were hard. Tam: Yeah. I mean, it keeps you up every night and it needs your attention when you don't wanna give it attention. Keely: And like, and even when you're tired and drained and don't want to give it anymore attention, you power through and give it fucking attention anyway. Morgan: Yeah, absolutely. And, and it, you know, I think like any couple, when you have a young baby, it, it changes you puts pressure in different areas. And, and the business did that. It was very connective and we loved it. And you know, it was the business has never challenged our relationship, but all of the work, it was. You know, very long days and very long weeks for the first couple of years of work. Tam: Yeah. So in may of 2021, then I came on to Rebel Heart and officially, and decided take a year to close down my private practice because I loved my clients that were over there and I didn't know I was gonna be able to keep them over here. Just because of most of them were through an insurance that I was taking over there. Yeah. And so I didn't know if they'd be able to follow me and, and I wanted to give them time to close out. Morgan: You needed time. Tam: And I needed time. It was a big deal. Like my, my my practice was a big deal to me and closing it out, you know, doing this Rebel Heart thing with Morgan is amazing. Closing my practice was hard, you know, it was a lot of work. Yeah. That I put into it. So. Yeah. It was a big deal. Yep. We had one of our kids move out during that time who like just flourished after she moved out. I mean, just, just incredibly, like she really manages life like, like a grownup. Right. And yeah, it was my first experience that kids like, just surprise you. Like they really they really surprise you. So she did great, which I think put, took a lot of pressure off of us in a lot of ways around parenting and worrying about her. She did really well. Keely: Well, what were the two of you when you, as you've given us your lovely story and hearing about all of the great things, all of the positives, some challenges as well, how would you want to encapsulate before we move to Queer Joy encapsulate where one or two pieces that you see is what's working well with the two of you. How would you wrap that up? Tam: What's I'm gonna say the thing that we always say, which is we are both so incredibly passionate about our relationship. We, we look at it as an entirely different entity and, and we caretake it with as much energy as we try to care each other and ourselves. And so that really is the focus of, of Joy. So we're very intentional about having time together and, and making sure that our relationship is being nurtured as much as the business, you know, and that when we start to feel it, our relationship get pressured. We, we will, we need to stop everything else because, because this is so important to both of us. Yeah, yeah. I think that's an area. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. I will always pause and find a way to reconnect. Yeah. And you are more gorgeous than you are when I met you and you are like more intoxicating. And I still love it when I hear stories you've told me before or when I get to hear new ones, like we're just, we're still very ridiculously of each other and love each other. Keely: Well, for those that are listening, it's very obvious. Yes. How loving and in love and just glowing radiating the two of you are, Morgan: I mean, you are still the hottest person in every room, no matter where we are. Tam: Thank you. Yeah. Keely: Well, thank you all for sharing. Just awesome. I'm trying to think of other words to explain it, but just thank you for sharing your story. It's so wonderful. And it, this is why I know, I could say for myself, I know Melisa too enjoys doing this is getting to hear all of this Queer Joy In these relationships. So we do wrap up and y'all can just say something in general, or you can name something from this Melisa. And I usually do something from the week for Queer Joy.. But does anyone wanna jump in and, and start the train of Queer Joy? Melisa: I'll I'll start today. I wanna, I wanna say, I mean, thank you, cuz part of my Queer Joy is being able to hear your story and also being able to hear about the business starting, you know, I, without having a lot of contact with Rebel Hearts, I've known you from not really afar. I mean we're all right here, but refer people to you all and it's just, it's such a pleasure to be able to connect in this way. Tam: Cool and thank you for all you're doing. Melisa: But other than that, I would say my Queer Joy has to do with the dating realm. That's kind of where my life is right now, which still to me is hilarious because I was very like solo just by myself for a while. But in, in spirit of Pride, I actually was not on the dating apps that had one of those scenarios where somebody I had like swiped right on a while ago connected with me. So it was cool to see a match out of nowhere when I was not trying to like find a match and it's an AFAB person and it's been quite a while since I have found a connection with an AFAB a person. So I'm like super excited every time I see a little ding on my phone. Very new connection. I mean, we've exchanged all of like maybe four messages, but that like was enough to tell me like, we're we're ready for, for some more connections. Tam: that's awesome. Congratulations. Melisa: Thank you. I love that Keely: Melisa and I kinda swapped where at the beginning of when we first started last year in October, Melisa is very much like I'm, Melisa: I'm not dating at all. I'm I have cats and plants and I'm happy Keely: whereas I was like, I don't know, doing whatever. Dating. Doing the dating thing I was actively at the beginning of this year was actively on the dating apps. Now I'm not on dating apps, but my Queer Joy is I got to do the first ride of the year for me with PedalPalooza and it was the rainbow ride and it was at nighttime. Oh my gosh. What an amazing combination of getting on my bike. And of course, it's Portland. So it's pouring down rain at first. We're debating, like, do we keep, you know, do we separate from the ride. Do we continue? So, but 20 minutes in the rain had stopped. We had this wonderful downtown ride looped around and then ended at a dance party under the bridge on the east. What's it called? Eastbank palisade, whatever Is by almsy. I can't think of the name, but so a big out outside queer dance party with like three different DJs. And that was when I'm like, we're, I'm in Pride now. Like this is Pride month. This is what it's about. And one of the things, yes, it was super queer. Yes. I was surrounded by our community and I'd had a really shitty experience. I don't even go into it, but I had a really crappy experience during a training before that. So it was like so wonderful to have that to end my day. What a, another piece that I really enjoyed about it though, was when I was biking with all these people being around downtown, there are so many enthusiastic people around us, like cheering us on and yelling, happy Pride, cuz it, you know, we were all very decorated, glitter and rainbows and, and Pride flags and you know, all of these things that made it very apparent, it was about Pride and just to have that support and cheering and just being around people, but it's outside so it felt good. Made my whole weekend. She's such a delight. So my Queer Joy for the week. Tam: How fun. I love it. I love it. This feels very Queer Joy for me. Yeah. I think any chance to sit and be in a space with other queer humans and be entirely safe and get to talk all of the cool stuff with us. And I love reflecting back on how we met and all of that. So yeah, this feels very Queer Joy, and then just, you know, getting ready for Pride and like planning all these things that we're gonna do. It's just, it's a very queer, happy time. Yeah. Well, yeah. Morgan: But I was thinking specifically about going to Roller derby on Saturday. It's always a moment of Queer Joy for me. Yes. I, you know, it's not a queer specific space, but we take up a lot of space and like watching the, watching the queer young people in that space feel so comfortable and just know who they are. That always makes me really happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Roller Derby. Mm-hmm we didn't talk about that. Hugely. Yeah. Tam: It's so hard to narrow down , which is a wonderful problem to have. Yeah. I think a really beautiful space of Queer Joy is like we- Oh, my God. There's so many things I wanna say about that. So many things I wanna say about that, like, we always feel like the cool kids in any room. Like we're like, you know, Morgan always says like being queers, like where you're all the like weird kind of misfits are all of a sudden the cool kids. And so like, it's just. Being in a being lesbians or being in a queer relationship and showing up in the world that way we always feel very cool. And it's a privilege. Yeah. You know, we move into rooms and we move around rooms, knowing that we have something that, you know, there's a lot of people that, that. Relationships, not that they're easy, but they don't have that external pressure of having to fight for your place. Yeah. And, and we did that and we hold it and it's really important to us. And we want you know, we live in Camas and Camas Washington, which is a, a very, you know, it's not Portland. It's, it's not queer happy. And we have. A progress pride flag out in front of our house and we are very much in love and holding hands and kissing each other. Hello, and doing all the things. And we want whatever queer kids are on that block. We want them to like, see that this is a thing. Yeah. Keely: Yeah. You're taking up space. I mean, that's your queer- well, you just named like five Queer joy. Tam: I know. I know. Keely: No, it was awesome. No, the more, the better, but yes, taking up space in a place like Camas, Washington as a queer couple and showing up together as a queer couple is so. Important and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. Tam: Thank you so much for having us. This is really fun. Yeah. Keely: And as thank you so much, it's been so much fun and as always, I hope all of you have a Queer and Joyful week. Cardinal: With audio edited by Mars, Gasper and produced by me. Cardinal marking intro music is by bad snacks. This week's guests were Tam and Morgan of rebel heart therapy. Find them@rebelheartpdx.com. If this episode made you smile or think, tell us about it, if you hated it, tell us about that. Review us on iTunes or send us an email at info Connective therapy, Collective dot com. For more queer joy, visit our website www dot Connective therapy. Collective dot com. Love ya. Bye.